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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 4:08 pm   #1
kcbetty3
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Default 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Hi, For some reason our semi has a servant bell box. It is fully working but it is on a wall we want to knock down. We have had a few electricians around but just lots of puzzled and horrified faces!

We would really like to keep it so checking on here if anyone has any advice on how to go about moving it? The wires into it would need extending about a meter.

I've seen some other threads on here about the internals but they are all ok. Thanks in advance for any help.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 4:35 pm   #2
Dave Moll
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

If this annunciator's existing wiring around the house is sound, my approach would be to terminate it in a junction box at some point prior to it reaching the wall destined for removal, then to use multi-core cable (such as ethernet cable) between the junction box and the new location of the annunciator panel.

N.B. The junction box need be nothing more elaborate than a piece of terminal strip (known as chocolate block) in a wall-mounted back box behind a blanking plate.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 5:03 pm   #3
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Thanks Dave that's great. I had thought that initially but the type of wire being used threw me.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 7:01 pm   #4
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Interesting to see one still in use. How is it powered?
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 7:39 pm   #5
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

It's on a transformer off the mains.

Thought it would be nice to keep it as a feature since it is working and the box is in great condition.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 8:50 pm   #6
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Small neat screw-terminal junction boxes may be found in the "burglar alarm accessories" section of various suppliers' catalogues. 10-, 20- and 50-pair telephone cable is available in short lengths from Ebay sellers.

There's probably a call wire from each push, a common wire from all pushes, 2 x transformer wires, and 2 x bell wires if the bell is remote.
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Old 24th Jan 2022, 11:25 pm   #7
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

that's a nice feature and I'm glad you're saving it.
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Old 3rd Feb 2022, 2:05 pm   #8
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Some friends had a semi with a very similar box and bell pushes throughout the house. It was a reasonably sized house built in the 1920s (4 bedrooms) but nothing very special. I was surprised they had a servant even in those days. I imagine it was an over worked maid of all work.

Unfortunately they stripped it all out . It was the 1970s, after the worst of the Barry Bucknell era, but something like that was just not valued at all.
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Old 3rd Feb 2022, 2:18 pm   #9
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbetty3 View Post
It's on a transformer off the mains.
As others have said, low-voltage wiring then - chocolate-block terminal strips, will be fine!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kcbetty3 View Post
Thought it would be nice to keep it as a feature since it is working and the box is in great condition.
Exactly. Having to open the door and shout for servants is so uncivilised...
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Old 3rd Feb 2022, 9:10 pm   #10
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Hi, this should not be a complex issue. There appear to be 8 indicators most likely activated by 8 pairs of wires. Any "old school", sparks worth their salt ought to be able to "buzz' out each applicable pair, extend & reconnect onto each indicator in turn. Just compare it to reconnecting 8 separate doorbells.

To buzz out each call button - get someone to permanently press a call button then connect a continuity tester lead to one wire then touch the other lead to each remaining one until bleep heard. Mark up that pair then repeat.

In the short term you could just extend the wires to the new position just to allow for making good the building works.

It's a shame you do not live closer... I would have been happy to sort just for the love of rescusitating a lovely piece of vintage equipment
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 12:40 am   #11
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

My paternal grandparents had three bells on springs in the kitchen in their Victorian flat in Edinburgh, operated through wires pulleys and cranks. Only the street door bell worked, one of six large brass pulls which seemed to be quite common on Edinburgh tenements when I was a kid.

There was a Bakelite handle in the lounge, you could hear the broken wire rubbing against the laths inside the wall, I can't remember what the third bell was for

My aunt, who lived in a more suburban area of Edinburgh had an electric board like the OPs, I don't remember it ever working (but I do vaguely remember a lady who helped with the ironing).

More recently some friends moved into house in Manchester with a similar board and I was looking forward to reverbing it along with stripping the paint off and varnishing it.

As it happened, that privilege went to one of the dads, but he did a grand job.
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 9:03 am   #12
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjet View Post
There appear to be 8 indicators most likely activated by 8 pairs of wires.
I have repaired a couple of servant bell boards and the indicators generally have one side connected to a wire which is common to all indicators. Typically this wire is connected to one side of the bell, the other side of the bell going to one side of the battery or transformer.

From the other side of the indicator a single wire goes to each bell push. The other side of each bell push goes to the other side of the battery or transformer.

Generally there is a length of twin conductor bell wire running from each bell push to the bell board. One wire is connected to a common terminal in the bell board and the other to an individual indicator.

I'll try to post a circuit later if no one beats me to it.
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 11:43 am   #13
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Circuit attached. The positions of the bell and battery may be transposed.
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 12:42 pm   #14
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

We have a similar one that I had working in our last house. It required a fair number of repairs to the silk covered solid wires that had been broken by previous workmen. I stuck it up on the kitchen wall in our current Edwardian house and have since discovered it is exactly where all the wires run to but the wife is not to keen on me hacking the newly decorated plaster off the wall to wire it in.
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 1:08 pm   #15
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

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the wife is not to keen on me hacking the newly decorated plaster off the wall to wire it in.
Some people have no idea of fun - or priorities!!
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 6:03 pm   #16
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Thanks for all the help and the offer Roger

Bits have all arrived now so going to give it a go next weekend

We're doing a lot of renovations so plastering isn't an issue. I always think it is a shame not to try and save things like this. It's going to be above the new kitchen door once they finish building one!
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 6:46 pm   #17
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Telephone, Ethernet or alarm cable would be ideal for this.
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 8:41 pm   #18
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Good luck & well done for having a go at the weekend. Another option for extending the wires would be to use a similar size pvc wire to the existing ones & join them using an automobile crimp connector (the yellow ones would be right size). The joints should be staggered so you do not end up with a large clump that would be difficult to conceal.

My apologies for info on how to buzz out the bell push pairs because the method I describe would be hit & miss unless all bell pushes were pressed or shorted out first. No ideal to mess too much with the old wiring though because the insulation may have become brittle with the passage of time.

Thanks Graham for providing a circuit diagram, I was puzzled as to how the bell rang but can see it is a series circuit. Simple & effective.
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 9:08 pm   #19
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Annunciators like this were surprisingly common in 1920s and 30s houses, even in quite modest suburban semis. We tend to forget how common domestic servants were at that time - even lower middle class households like teachers and clerks would often employ a 'daily woman' who would spend most of her time in the kitchen, cooking and waiting for the annunciator to ring. Most of the annunciators were ripped out in successive refurbishments, but my aunt's 4 bedroom Streatham semi still had one 20 years ago.
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Old 4th Feb 2022, 9:11 pm   #20
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Default Re: 1930 Servant Bell Box Relocation

Here's one I restored earlier:-

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=64450
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