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Old 8th Mar 2023, 12:19 am   #1
RetroHacker
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Default Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

As someone with a deep love of televisions and video technology, I greatly enjoy VCRs, and love all of the various different tape formats and equipment. I've finally managed to get my hands on Video 2000 - I've never had experience with the format in the past, hence some of my questions. Specifically, about tape compatibility and reliability.

I have a VR2020 here, that I have managed to repair and get it (I believe) to be fully functional. Difficulties abound due to my lack of familiarity with the format, and the only documentation being in German. I've built it using parts from two machines. Having two has allowed me to swap modules around to isolate faults - although in the case of the motor control module (U180), neither one of them worked, and I had to trace the fault back to a bad comparator chip and replace it. But - from where I am at now, I believe this machine is fully functional.

I only have a handful of tapes - Video 2000 cassettes are hard to find - acquired from eBay from two different sellers. SOME of the tapes play perfectly, and look pretty good - occasional dropouts and jumps but for the most part, clear picture and good sound. Others play with a rolling, jumping picture, static in alternating fields, color going in and out, etc. But then others play fine - sometimes even the other side of the same tape will play fine where the first side jumped and rolled. These faults are consistent - if I play a tape that wasn't playing well before a second time, I get the same results. Or, like I have one tape where the first minute is always really bad, but then it clears up and plays mostly OK with some noise at the bottom. The picture frequently looks like I would normally be wanting to reach for the tracking control on Beta or VHS or something, but of course V2000 has it's dynamic track following and no tracking control.

I've already been through and meticulously cleaned the heads, tape path, the pinch roller, capstan, and inspected it as closely as I can while it plays. The tape seems to run smoothly and true and not ride up or shift on the rollers. I've already tried substituting the U260 track following module, with no change. Obviously, the first thought it simply bad, degraded tapes, bad recordings, etc. Most of the tapes are heavily curled lengthwise, throughout the entire media. I don't know if this is common but from the small sample size of tapes I have here, it sure seems to be. I haven't seen this on VHS or Beta. But it doesn't seem to be poor tape/drum contact, as the tape is still pulled flat as it's against the drum, the tension seems right, and slightly increasing the tension doesn't change anything. And some of the curled tapes play fine - while one tape that's nearly flat doesn't. Being as the nonplaying tapes are consistent, that lends credence to the thought that the problem is the tapes themselves. Bad recordings, maybe on out of spec machines initially. But from what I understand about the format, I'd expect the track following to take care of that - V2000 has no control track, it follows the video tracks on the tape itself. I wouldn't expect machine alignment to matter all that much. The sound works fine, that track lines up.

The fact that some tapes play nicely seems to indicate that I've got my machine working at least, fairly well. I have successfully played a three hour side of a tape from beginning to end without problem or heavy dropouts. But it's concerning that probably half or more of the tapes I have don't play properly, which makes me question things.

Just looking for advice, and if anyone has run into this issue with the tapes being cupped/curled, or just overall knowledge of the general reliability of the V2000 format with regards to tape interchangeability between machines, alignment, etc.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 8:48 am   #2
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

A few thoughts and comments:

What model is it? there were two generations of V2000 machines.

I'm surprised you're only finding info written in German, there was lots of stuff in English at one time including a dedicated V2000 site: https://v2000.palsite.com/

Make up your own tapes using tape from the latest and best VHS tapes that were available just prior to the system being closed down. The difference in quality is stunning as video tape formulations at the time of V2000 were way behind what they became during in the later stages of VHS. You will not get good results using a perfect machine and bad tapes.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 11:21 am   #3
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

I too looked for an English text version of the 2020 manual. The only source I noted was from "User-Manuals.com," a US based company.

The manual, sent as a PDF, is available from them at a cost of $7.99 and the company say it is in English.

So far, I've been OK with my German manual and together with the detailed description of the Video 2000 system in the magazine Practical Television dated April 1982, onwards. Copy of this magazine is available on the World Radio History site.

Should you go down the PDF, please do let me know if it is in English.

I echo the remarks on tape quality, whilst I haven't gone down the route to use VHS tape wound into a 2000 cassette, details of the variable quality of video tapes was a well trodden subject.

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Old 8th Mar 2023, 12:07 pm   #4
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

Questionable tape quality springs to mind but, if you've been chopping and changing servo boards to clear any problems some alignment may be required, regrettably not a particularly easy task without the board extenders, it's just possible someone here may still have a set to lend you.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 1:07 pm   #5
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

I'd wondered about what alignment I might need to do to the machine, but, being as though all the alignment instructions in the manual are in German, this makes it a bit difficult to understand. Google translate doesn't help very much in technical subjects with lots of special words and abbreviations. The comparator chip I had to replace shouldn't affect alignment - but, of course, this machine is 40 years old, lots of things could affect alignment. I'm used to aligning VHS and Beta, but in this case I'm not quite sure where the RF test point or head switching signal is. I suppose I can probably figure that out, however. Of course then the tape guides in this don't adjust like I'm used to, so, lots more things to figure out.

The machine in question is a VR2020, although I have another, newer machine here I should probably dig into to try to get to run. Having a second machine working might help me understand if the problem is my tapes or the first machine.

While it's true there is a lot of writings about Video 2000 in English - and I've spent a long time researching to learn what I know so far - most of the available info is simply lists of machines, basic features, overviews - very little real in-depth technical documentation about the innerworkings of the machine itself. For instance, I know that the dynamic track following uses piezo actuators to follow the signal on the tape. But I don't know how it determines how it needs to adjust them - I'm assuming some sort of automatic gain control based on the tones recorded alongside the video, trying to adjust the heads for maximum gain as the tape goes by. Also, how to know which direction the heads need to be moved? And what part of this information is used to adjust the capstan and head servo? Doing all this on the fly seems impressively hard. Then again, the amount of engineering that went into this format is astonishing, and part of the reason I enjoy it so much.

I'm very familiar with video tape degradation and quality variances as it applies to VHS and Beta, but - this looks different, these faults manifest differently. The tape doesn't stick and jam in the machine like the usual sticky shed, and it doesn't leave thick deposits on the guides and heads. Since some tapes play on one side but not the other, that again is confusing, you'd think for a given tape it would run the same in either direction if the media were degraded. I've got some tapes that appear to play such that every other field is good - I've attached some photos I managed to snap of such a tape playing, catching both a good field and a bad field. I'd ordinarily assume this is a clogged head, but, this tape does this every time. Like the track following is able to line up one head but not the other.

At the moment the tape path alignment seems to be one likely culprit, given the symptoms. But again, without knowing precisely how to adjust it, I don't want to mess with it just yet. I also don't have a single known good tape - it's not like prerecorded tapes are easy to get. I actually had high hopes for one tape, I have here one that is labeled as the instructional program for the VCR - of course, someone recorded a Formula 1 race over it sometime in the 80's, and it's another of the tapes that doesn't play quite right.

I've yet to try to record anything yet, as I don't yet have a way to get video into the machine. I need to build another video amplifier circuit for the input side. I built the amplifier for the output side already based on the information on the PALsite, and it works nicely.

I'd thought about the possibility of spooling VHS tape into a Video 2000 shell, and for sure I encounter a badly enough ruined tape I will try this. The reflective leader from the Video 2000 tape would of course need to be retained unless I can find a suitably thin reflective strip to adhere to the new tape.

I've got more experimenting to do, but the more I can learn about the format and it's quirks, the better I can hope to understand all of this.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 3:14 pm   #6
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

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Originally Posted by RetroHacker View Post
V2000 has no control track, it follows the video tracks on the tape itself.
Yes...within reason!! The head actuators will only travel so far so if you have an out-of-spec recording, it could be beyond the capabilities of the track following system. It must be over 35 years since I had the Philips training on these. I can't remember what the limit of tracking was but there IS a limit. At Philips, we had factory recorded master tapes (very expensive) to check compatibility between machines...theoretically you should be able to play any V2000 tape on any V2000 machine. We even had a Grundig machine in the workshop so that we could check Philips recordings on that and Grundig recordings on a Philips.

Unfortunately you have no means of knowing how good the recordings are on your tapes.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 3:32 pm   #7
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroHacker View Post

I'd thought about the possibility of spooling VHS tape into a Video 2000 shell, and for sure I encounter a badly enough ruined tape I will try this. The reflective leader from the Video 2000 tape would of course need to be retained unless I can find a suitably thin reflective strip to adhere to the new tape.

I've got more experimenting to do, but the more I can learn about the format and it's quirks, the better I can hope to understand all of this.
Trust me, this is well worth doing, the difference in quality and performance is stunning. Once you've tried it your old V2000 tapes will no longer be good enough for you, you'll want to do them all! So just use the worst example you've got and spool it up with the absolute best, latest generation VHS tape you can find. Good luck.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 4:28 pm   #8
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

So, after writing my response earlier, it got me thinking and I did a bit more experimenting. I tried swapping around the capstan servo (U220) and head servo (U280) boards with the ones from the junk machine. The capstan servo board made no difference but the head servo board made everything considerably worse. Only one of the tapes played without rolling, and others were markedly degraded as well. This gives me a direction to follow - it could very well be that this needs to be aligned better. Of course, now I'm back to the problem of how to do so, the manual does have instructions for this board in English, but only for setting the phase and speed adjustment. The gap and position adjustment (which I'm not sure what they apply to), simply say to refer to the recorder adjustments section, which is all in German.

I will have to sit down later with some tools and attempt to adjust the worse of the two head servo modules to make it functional, and that will hopefully give me more insight into the system.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 5:57 pm   #9
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

A a side note, I would be curious to see what version of this machine ended up in the USA, that's the number behind VR2020/.. Also, I would be interested in the serial number (bottom line on the type label, starting with WD for my research into production dates and numbers.
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Old 8th Mar 2023, 6:48 pm   #10
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

This machine is a VR 2020/02, serial number WD18037A7508019. It was originally from the Netherlands, however - it got here via DHL a couple of months ago, due to me spending rather too much money getting it shipped here. The legends on all the buttons are in German. I've changed the strapping on the primary side of the transformer to allow it to work on the 120V power here. The other, junk machine I have for parts is actually a VR 2021/05, serial number WD04141062017924. It originally came from the UK, shipped here recently, but unfortunately it would seem the previous owner stored it in a pond. The head drum is so badly corroded that there's no way it'll ever be usable, and the loading track mechanism that brings the guides and pinch roller forward to thread the tape is crumbled and broken apart, the pinch roller guide and the pulley/cable thing has fallen off the crumbled track. None of this was visible in the online auction photos, of course. By a stroke of luck, however, the battery on the system control board had not corroded in this one, allowing me to use that board to replace the original one from the VR2020, which had been destroyed beyond reasonable repair due to it's battery leaking heavily.

I did just attempt to adjust the worse of the two head servo boards - I was able to get it adjusted to the point where it works about as well as the original head servo board, but I can't get it to play any additional tapes. So I might be on the wrong track here. Of course, I'm just guessing at settings, I marked the pots before twiddling, and it only required a tiny tweak to bring it in line with the other head servo board. So now I have two that work basically the same.
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Old 9th Mar 2023, 12:37 am   #11
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

These machines are forty odd years old now. The VR2020 was the first Philip's V2000. The picture quality was never that good even back then. The later VR2022 was much better. If the video heads have been swopped, to achieve good track following the set-up had to be done with twin-channel scope and a alignment tape. They would work without doing this, but would be 'fussy' on playback. Do not adjust the lead in/guides they way you do VHS you can get totally lost without the right test gear.

You've done well to get one of these running without the extender board kit. These are difficult machines to work on.
The problem I had the most was the upper head drum assy. Whilst the heads would still produce FM, the piezoelectric actuators would lose sensitivity over time and cause tracking errors. You could use VR2022/23 heads in VR2020 at a pinch, but never the other way round. In all my time these units, I only ever had one track following pcb defective- it destroyed the video heads as well!

Please, please do not attempt to realign your machine, I serviced these regularly for around 7 years and found it was NEVER necessary.

The small relays on the deck underside were also notoriously unreliable, a slight tap on the relays cover could cause the unit to shut down. I think this was on the P70 pcb.

Regards, SJM.
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Old 9th Mar 2023, 3:32 am   #12
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

The ITN News anchor at the foot of post #5 is Sandy Gall.
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Old 9th Mar 2023, 2:46 pm   #13
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

I have the paper copy of the VR2020 service manual in English, however it does not list the /02 suffix, so there may be some differences. The manual covers suffixes 00, 05, 10, 73 and 75. 05 being the usual UK version. I could scan the alignment and adjustments section to email to you as pdf pages if it helps. Please PM me if that would be of use.

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Old 9th Mar 2023, 10:18 pm   #14
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

There's the excellent books written by Steve Beeching. "Domestic videocassette recorders" covers the first principles of how v2000 works. It was written in the eighties. I think there is even a free pdf available now of it on the web. The book is well worth getting all the same.

I seem to recall once a customer once said that the lip-sync was wrong on his VR2022. It turned out that the VCR had had a video head change some time before. The odd thing was that sometimes the lip sync was wrong, then after a play-stop-play it would be ok. It had never been set up after the head change.

Most of the people that serviced these units are now long since retired, or have left the trade years ago. So info is now hard to come by.

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Old 9th Mar 2023, 10:41 pm   #15
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

I've just remembered a problem that Philips tech rep told me years ago. He said that some 'hi-useage' machines suffered with tape fussiness. This was due to the top underside of the the guides getting grooves cut into them after years of use. The tapes sometimes ran in the groove then not. This did affect the tracking.

Don't forget that these machines also had electronic back tension. No felt pads etc. I found that if the back tension was low, playback at the end of a tape suffered. I've aged 41 years since I found this, it's starting to come back slowly!!!

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Old 9th Mar 2023, 11:05 pm   #16
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

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I seem to recall once a customer once said that the lip-sync was wrong on his VR2022.
SJM.
This was a problem we discovered in the Philips workshop. In this particular case, the tape had been recorded on a Grundig machine. We checked the Philips machine and found it to be perfect so we asked him if he could send in the Grundig machine. It was an early first-generation Grundig and we found the the audio head was in the wrong position mechanically. We contacted Grundig who apparently had only just discovered the problem......They had to modify their 2000 mechanics to make them compatible with the Philips machines....
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Old 10th Mar 2023, 12:22 am   #17
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

On the Grundig VCR's you had to shim the heads to the correct height after a change. If not you would get weak field sync due to low FM on the tape lead in. There was even a extra pcb made to add in on the 2x4 Super to give an artificial field sync pulse. This was for users to play well worn tapes without problem. You lost interlace, but no one noticed.

We never had any problems like this on the VR2020/21/22/23.
Perhaps that's a question for Sideband?
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Old 10th Mar 2023, 4:27 pm   #18
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroHacker View Post
This machine is a VR 2020/02, serial number WD18037A7508019. It was originally from the Netherlands, however - it got here via DHL a couple of months ago, due to me spending rather too much money getting it shipped here. The legends on all the buttons are in German. I've changed the strapping on the primary side of the transformer to allow it to work on the 120V power here. The other, junk machine I have for parts is actually a VR 2021/05, serial number WD04141062017924.
Thanks! The VR2020 is relatively early, revision 18 from week 37 of 1980. The /02 suffix is indeed for the German market. It may have a PAL/SECAM colour decoder, I'm not sure. It should not be too different otherwise.

The /05 suffix on the VR2021 indicates it was for the UK market. It was made in week 41 of 1981.
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Old 10th Mar 2023, 4:48 pm   #19
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

I've got a couple of these (I used to have more, but they went in a house move over two decades ago), the one's I've got now are from around four years ago and the pictures below are of one of them that I got going at the time. I've not touched it since I took those pictures in 2019, so perhaps it's time to dig it out again and give it a bit of a run.
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Old 14th Mar 2023, 7:57 pm   #20
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Default Re: Video 2000 tape interchangeability and reliability questions

I dragged both of my Video 2000 recorders out of cold storage today. I put the VR2022 that I had originally got working at the time into a 'warmer' room to acclimatise for a few days or so before I attempt to power it up and play any tapes.

The other one is an older VR2020, the same as the OPs. I shouldn't have really, but because I remembered that this was the one that I didn't manage get working at the time, I just connected it to the mains to see what it would do, as I'm not that bothered about it, and after a bit of whirring and clicking it actually did more than I thought it would do. I've forgotten exactly what was supposed to be wrong with this one and it seemed to do a bit more than I remembered, but it is getting on for nearly 4 years ago when I last played with them. I've put this one back into cold storage for the foreseeable, as I haven't got the time to mess with it at the moment, but at least it got its mechanism moving and its caps reforming a bit - I didn't attempt to put a tape in it.

I'll leave the better VR2022 for a week or so in the warm before powering it up and trying a tape in it.

VR2020 below:-
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Last edited by Techman; 14th Mar 2023 at 8:22 pm. Reason: Add the forgotten 'R' to VR.
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