UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Telephony and Telecomms

Notices

Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 25th Feb 2023, 10:34 pm   #1
Phonosandradios
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Trowbridge, Wiltshire.
Posts: 69
Default Question about a possible phone number

I had a quick question relating to an ID tag I found recently on a piece of audio equipment I recently bought. The tag reads:

British Capehart Corporation Ltd
34 South Side London SW4
Macauley 3529

My question relates to the last line. Is this a phone number? I know that in years past a name was often used as part of the reference in a phone number. But am I correct in assuming that this is what this reference is. The ID plate dates from 1937 / 38.
Phonosandradios is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2023, 10:36 pm   #2
Phonosandradios
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Trowbridge, Wiltshire.
Posts: 69
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

Here is the photo
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20230224_132112.jpg (68.1 KB, 110 views)
Phonosandradios is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2023, 10:44 pm   #3
ajgriff
Nonode
 
ajgriff's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Halifax, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 2,583
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

MACaulay was the exchange for Nine Elms in London so yes it's a telephone number.

Alan
ajgriff is online now  
Old 25th Feb 2023, 10:50 pm   #4
Phonosandradios
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Trowbridge, Wiltshire.
Posts: 69
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

Perfect. Thank you.
Phonosandradios is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2023, 10:53 pm   #5
David G4EBT
Dekatron
 
David G4EBT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cottingham, East Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 5,737
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonosandradios View Post
I had a quick question relating to an ID tag I found recently on a piece of audio equipment I recently bought. The tag reads:

British Capehart Corporation Ltd
34 South Side London SW4
Macauley 3529

My question relates to the last line. Is this a phone number? I know that in years past a name was often used as part of the reference in a phone number. But am I correct in assuming that this is what this reference is. The ID plate dates from 1937 / 38.
It's Macaulay (not Macauley) and was the prefix for the Nine Elms district 'director exchange' in the mid 1960s.

The full list of London 'director system' names in alpha name order circa 1966 is here:

https://rhaworth.net/phreak/tenp_01.php

More about the 'director system' here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_telephone_system

(Post crossed with Alan's)

Hope that helps.
__________________
David.
BVWS Member.
G-QRP Club member 1339.
David G4EBT is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2023, 11:17 pm   #6
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,787
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

All London phone numbers were 4 digits and the shortened exchange name at one time, hence the famous Scotland Yard number of 'Whitehall 1212'. The exchange names were changed to 3 digit numeric codes as part of automation in the 60s.
paulsherwin is online now  
Old 26th Feb 2023, 9:27 am   #7
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

In full the number would have been 01-622-3529. The modern equivalent would be 020-7622-3529.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is online now  
Old 6th Mar 2023, 6:20 pm   #8
2000 type
Tetrode
 
2000 type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: North Surrey, UK.
Posts: 65
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

MACaulay exchange building is in Stewarts Road, Wandsworth. The Strowger Director unit was brought into service on 1st September 1930.

The Capehart Corporation of Fort Wayne, Indiana was a high end audio equipment manufacturer. Possibly the item shown was an export item and the address a UK office.
Unfortunately it seems that they went bust in 1939.
2000 type is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2023, 6:53 pm   #9
Paul_RK
Dekatron
 
Paul_RK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fakenham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 4,246
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

It looks a pleasant address if it's this:

https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk...d#.ZAYmvELVBPY

I've checked a couple of Broadcaster Trade Annuals: in the 1935 volume the British Capehart Corpn. Ltd. is listed as at Winchester Works, Sumner Road, Peckham SE15, but in the 1937 one they're not listed at all.

Paul
Paul_RK is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2023, 11:10 pm   #10
Pellseinydd
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
All London phone numbers were 4 digits and the shortened exchange name at one time, hence the famous Scotland Yard number of 'Whitehall 1212'. The exchange names were changed to 3 digit numeric codes as part of automation in the 60s.
Exchange names were not originally shortened - just that the first three letters were dialled as the exchange prefix to the four digit number.

The change was not associated with 'automation' as the first of the London Director exchanges to go automatic was HOLborn in 1927 and automation was well underway after WW2. By 1960 there were only a dozen out of the 226 exchanges of what were to become Director exchanges that were still manual.

The three digit numeric codes were introduced as part of 'All Figure Numbering' (AFN) which started in 1966 and took several years to complete. The AFN codes slowly appeared as the changes had taken place during 1967/68 in the Subscriber Trunk Dialling codebooks.

The problem was that London had long since run out of exchange names where the first three letters could be used as the exchange code. Hence the range of poets, musicians, admirals and other famous folk - BYRon, CUNningham, DICkens, ELGar, HOGarth NELson, IVAnhoe, KEAts, KIPling and many others. Hence the change to all fugure numbering – Thus WHItehall which translated originally as 01-944 changed to become 01-930 thus the well known WHI 1212 changed to become 930 1212.

Ian J
Pellseinydd is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2023, 11:28 pm   #11
Graham G3ZVT
Dekatron
 
Graham G3ZVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

My phone number PREstwich XXXX changed to 0161 773 XXXX ie no change at all!
In fact that phone number has been associated with this property long before I moved in, probably since the early 1950s if not before. I do know from newspaper adverts I've seen on archive sites, that during the war, my phone number belonged to a property abort 100 yards away.
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
Graham G3ZVT is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2023, 1:13 am   #12
emeritus
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Brentwood, Essex, UK.
Posts: 5,316
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

When I first visited Shenfield in Essex in the early 1970's, I found that the public call box phones had no dial, and lifting the handset connected you to the operator. There was a red button on the wall for 999 calls. The local exchange was KESTREL.

Last edited by emeritus; 7th Mar 2023 at 1:16 am. Reason: typos
emeritus is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2023, 10:36 am   #13
Pellseinydd
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
My phone number PREstwich XXXX changed to 0161 773 XXXX ie no change at all!
In fact that phone number has been associated with this property long before I moved in, probably since the early 1950s if not before. I do know from newspaper adverts I've seen on archive sites, that during the war, my phone number belonged to a property abort 100 yards away.
Some exchange name initial letters numerical equivalents were the same but due to 'sectorisation' which took place at the same time, others did change. For instance PREstwich (773) didn't but just up the road but still in Sector 7, BURy (287) changed to 764.

See attached for the Manchester 061 and Liverpool 051 sectors
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Manchester-AFN-Sectors.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	69.6 KB
ID:	274506   Click image for larger version

Name:	Liverpool-AFN-Sectors.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	64.8 KB
ID:	274507  
Pellseinydd is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2023, 11:43 am   #14
Pellseinydd
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
When I first visited Shenfield in Essex in the early 1970's, I found that the public call box phones had no dial, and lifting the handset connected you to the operator. There was a red button on the wall for 999 calls. The local exchange was KESTREL.
Interesting! KESTREL was a mobile Non-Director exchange which came into service on 1st April 1971 as a relief exchange for Brentwood exchange which was exhausted. 'Brentwood' was still a CB1 manual exchange – in fact it was that exhausted it had two exchanges Brentwood 1 and Brentwood 2 but with a common numbering scheme. Around change-over to auto on 19th July 1973 it had over 12,000 lines on a K1 crossbar exchange.

Hence 'Kestrel' mobile automatic exchange trailers were rolled in and when the lines were absorbed into Brentwood' on going 'auto' on 19th July 1973, Kestrel had over 1200 lines on it. I would suspect that the kiosk was actually on Brentwood but possibly to be moved onto Kestrel. The button in kiosks for 'Emergency' calls was only used on Central Battery signalling manual exchanges and would not work on an automatic exchange.
Pellseinydd is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2023, 4:27 pm   #15
Pellseinydd
Heptode
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pellseinydd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
When I first visited Shenfield in Essex in the early 1970's, I found that the public call box phones had no dial, and lifting the handset connected you to the operator. There was a red button on the wall for 999 calls. The local exchange was KESTREL.
Interesting! KESTREL was a mobile Non-Director exchange which came into service on 1st April 1971 as a relief exchange for Brentwood exchange which was exhausted. 'Brentwood' was still a CB1 manual exchange – in fact it was that exhausted it had two exchanges Brentwood 1 and Brentwood 2 but with a common numbering scheme. Around change-over to auto on 19th July 1973 it had over 12,000 lines on a K1 crossbar exchange.

Hence 'Kestrel' mobile automatic exchange trailers were rolled in and when the lines were absorbed into Brentwood' on going 'auto' on 19th July 1973, Kestrel had over 1200 lines on it. I would suspect that the kiosk was actually on Brentwood but possibly to be moved onto Kestrel. The button in kiosks for 'Emergency' calls was only used on Central Battery signalling manual exchanges and would not work on an automatic exchange.
Forgot to mention that the local exchange area for Brentwood and Kestrel were the same area so the kiosk would have been off Brentwood.
Pellseinydd is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2023, 11:25 am   #16
Phonosandradios
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Trowbridge, Wiltshire.
Posts: 69
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000 type View Post

The Capehart Corporation of Fort Wayne, Indiana was a high end audio equipment manufacturer. Possibly the item shown was an export item and the address a UK office.
Unfortunately it seems that they went bust in 1939.
Yes this plaque is on the record changer in a Capehart radiogram than I own and is being discussed in the thread linked below. The radiogram was made in the States with adaptations done by Capehart so that it would operate on UK voltages and they had a UK office to service the needs to their UK cliental which given the cost of these machines would probably have been a very small and exclusive group!

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=198639


I know that in the States that Capehart were bought out by another company (Farnsworth I believe) in the early 1940's and I guess anyway that after 3rd September 1939 that exporting radiograms from the states to the UK would no longer have been possible.

Last edited by Phonosandradios; 8th Mar 2023 at 11:32 am.
Phonosandradios is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2023, 2:05 pm   #17
2000 type
Tetrode
 
2000 type's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: North Surrey, UK.
Posts: 65
Default Re: Question about a possible phone number

The Capehart brand re-appeared after the war and was a major player in the domestic television boom of the 1950s in the US with the manufacturing plant still in Indiana
They were taken over by International Telephone & Telegraph (ITT) after which their luxury and quality image was said to have declined.

The Capehart name was later used in government electronics contracts, notably as a contract manufacturer of the Collins-designed R-390A receiver. Other manufacturing contracts for R-390As were awarded to the Clavier Corporation and Fowler Industries (the last in 1984), all allegedly actually the same company operating from the same New York premises.
2000 type is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:33 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.