UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 17th Jul 2020, 6:59 pm   #1
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,306
Default Sony KV1330UB

Hi

Bought a very nice Sony KV1330UB yesterday with an excellent tube! It’s working but not without its faults. Hoping someone can help out

Fault 1) Colours smear to the right. I’ve seen this before on my Nans 1990s Trinitron so not sure if it’s just something they do to an extent?

Fault 2) Horizontal lines throughout the picture (see attached Titanic picture) which are constantly there.

Fault 3) “Inverted” colours at times with my STB. Other inputs don’t seem to cause this. The guide is teal usually but when it “inverts” it goes purple, people go green.

Overall it seems to be a very good set with a very sharp picture.

Bit of a side note, what’s the extra cable that goes to the neck of the CRT from what I'm guessing to be the LOPT/Line stage as it comes out with the EHT cable. Never seen it before.

Any help’s appreciated.

Thanks
‘77
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	38A4D491-438E-4952-A253-6F2412C07B02.jpg
Views:	279
Size:	25.9 KB
ID:	211204   Click image for larger version

Name:	B646891A-FF02-480D-80A6-A6CBA2B29931.jpg
Views:	291
Size:	71.7 KB
ID:	211205   Click image for larger version

Name:	3578DE5D-5F84-4B34-B470-2FC298CB4D0D.jpg
Views:	286
Size:	80.5 KB
ID:	211206  
19Seventy7 is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2020, 9:42 pm   #2
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

The 13" Sony with an excellent tube will produce a very bright well contrasted picture without any colour bleed.

Setting the "picture" control clockwise to 3/4 of its adjustment is typical.

The halo effect on the program index suggests that the set is tuned to the wrong side of the set box video carrier. To conform, switch off AFC; tune until the herringbone pattern is seen then switch on AFC. If nothing happens, tune the set to the other side of the carrier and repeat the process. The halo effect should go.

The cable exiting the neck of the CRT connects the horizontal convergence voltage to the convergence plates. The next tube size 18" and for 3:4 ratio tubes thereafter, the connection was via a spring which mated a coaxial lead within the EHT cable.

Chris
simpsons is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2020, 11:01 am   #3
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Your inverted colours will be due to the unusual decoder seeing something from your box that's not quite right. You could spend ages realigning the decoder and not be any better off - a 'normal' PAL TV will not see anything amiss. There's a very detailed description of the PAL-NTSC decoder in the 'sticky' threads at the top of the TV page on the forum.
__________________
Glyn
www.gdelectronics.wales
Welsh Anorak is online now  
Old 18th Jul 2020, 10:46 pm   #4
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,306
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Hi,

I’ve retuned the set in the way you said to, but no change. The set up is running through SCART -> RF Modulator -> TV. I’m not sure if that could be causing any upset. Funny how no other sources do this, even using the same modulator. I’ve not yet tried anything else via SCART, although. Perhaps just incompatible?

Had a read of that sticky, made for a very interesting thread.

Does anyone know about the lines as shown in the Titanic image?

Thanks
‘77
19Seventy7 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2020, 11:10 pm   #5
Lloyd 1985
Nonode
 
Lloyd 1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coningsby, Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 2,814
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

I have 2 of these, and neither of them like my Sumvision cyclone media player, normally ending up with people with green or purple faces, as you have described!

not sure about those lines you mention, are they static, or do they move about?

Regards,
Lloyd
Lloyd 1985 is online now  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 12:03 am   #6
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,306
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

They move about, up and down by mm’s, sort of wobbling, they don’t roll up or down. They’re also unaffected by brightness and “picture” adjustments, just they’re more noticeable in dark than light scenes.

These are on all inputs, either through RF modulator or a direct feed from VCR.

Thanks
‘77

Last edited by 19Seventy7; 19th Jul 2020 at 12:10 am.
19Seventy7 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 12:13 am   #7
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

I am surprised that tuning the right side of the video carrier that you didn't notice how the AFC corrected tuning. The halo effect notwithstanding.

Please advise what make and model modulator are you using. The specification for video input via a scart socket is 1 volt p-p (composite), matching the std video output of set top boxes, DVD and video recorders etc; the RGB signals are ignored. The set top box etc should be adjusted to output a composite video.

The incorrect hue, green faces and so on really are dependant on the quality of the PAL encoder at source, ie STB, DVD player etc. A PAL TV will accept an out of tolerance encoder whilst the Sony does not. This means that the hue control might require adjustment depending on the source. Swinging the tuning either side of the video carrier usually corrects the green face issue. See para 1.

The horizontal lines mentioned are not apparent on the picture to me but subject o the modulator being correctly adjusted and that it appears on all inputs could be the adjustment marked "screen" on the crt base being over advanced. It should be turned slightly anti clockwise but note the original position as: To adjust correctly requires the user to follow the Service Manual instructions. Note: The "screen" voltage also affects the brightness of the display and the grey scale.

Chris
simpsons is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 1:24 am   #8
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,306
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Sorry if this is daft but not 100% up to terms with terminology, so think it best to clarify before going on, to prevent any more confusion.

The halo effect is the ‘smear’ of colour to the right?

I saw that AFC improves the picture quality, and of course, locks it, though the smear was still visible.

The RF modulator is a Technomate TM-RF “Universal RF Modulator” with SCART loop through, Composite in/out, aerial in, and RF out. There’s no other information on it.

When the colours “invert” the hue control has very little effect, tuning to either side doesnt seem to remedy it, though im 99% certain it is the STB. Changing the output from RGB, to Y/C, to CVBS, the colour change differs, as does the effect hue has.

As for the lines, i’ve reattached the titanic photo, they’re most noticable about central on screen, on the black part of the ship.

‘77
19Seventy7 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 8:54 am   #9
Andrew2
Nonode
 
Andrew2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,034
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

To my eyes it definitely looks like a tuning or alignment error rather than colour 'trailing' or 'bleeding'. Or it could be caused by the set overloading on too strong a signal from the modulator.
__________________
Andy G1HBE.
Andrew2 is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 9:36 am   #10
Heatercathodeshort
Dekatron
 
Heatercathodeshort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 9,145
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

It may be worth checking the decoupling capacitor that smooths the supply to the RGB output stages. It does give a similar effect before complete failure. J.
Heatercathodeshort is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 9:45 am   #11
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Alignment? Hmmm. I doubt it. This is after all a SONY and the 3rd photo looks OK.

The colour bleed issue shown on the menu from your photo does look more like spurious noise but given the modulator, which from the instructions, is very sophisticated and allows the user to adjust the RF output but pre-set to 0dB or 0.775 mV, may not be the cause.

Given that the modulator has HDMI input, why not feed first from your laptop Test Card C. As this is a monochrome picture any colour bleed defects will show up. Then feed a Phillips PM5544 test card, posting photos so that we can see better what, if any, the faults are.

Chris
simpsons is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 10:02 am   #12
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Does the colour bleed with the colour control turned down or a mono signal source? And do follow John's advice and change that capacitor - it does fail in these TVs, but not always in the way you'd expect.
__________________
Glyn
www.gdelectronics.wales
Welsh Anorak is online now  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 10:45 am   #13
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,483
Wink Re: Sony KV1330UB

'77 Can I correct my last post using the modulator to feed an HDMI source to the Sony. I think it was wishful thinking that it would convert HDMI to Composite. Looking again at the spec, it doesn't. Sorry for my mistake.

Maybe a menu shot from the DVD player with the colour control turned down will show a better illustration.

I do believe that it is high frequency spurious signals from the STB beating with the colour decoder very much like the effect on patterned shirts and ties. It is not a fault, just a side effect of PAL encoding.

Chris
simpsons is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2020, 7:41 pm   #14
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,306
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew2 View Post
Or it could be caused by the set overloading on too strong a signal from the modulator.
That could make sense, as I have used a splitter from the modulator to a conventional CRT set and to the Sony, the Hitachi showed a noisy picture, due to the splitter, the Sony still had a clean picture. I'll try an attenuator on it, see if it makes any difference.

Quote:
It may be worth checking the decoupling capacitor that smooths the supply to the RGB output stages.
Will have a look once I figure out which cap that is
Really ought to find a diagram for it.

Quote:
why not feed first from your laptop Test Card C. As this is a monochrome picture any colour bleed defects will show up. Then feed a Phillips PM5544 test card, posting photos so that we can see better what, if any, the faults are. / '77 Can I correct my last post using the modulator to feed an HDMI source to the Sony. I think it was wishful thinking that it would convert HDMI to Composite. Looking again at the spec, it doesn't. Sorry for my mistake
I'll feed it through from my Xbox, it'll show the same, my modulator doesn't have the HDMI, it's the composite one only, no problem about the mistake, i actually think the one I have has been removed from amazon / That site.

I'll post some photos in a while as I'm not able to at the moment.

Quote:
Does the colour bleed with the colour control turned down or a mono signal source?
Turning the colour down reduces colour bleed completely, as does if it's slightly out of tune, showing a monochrome picture. Not 100% sure on a monochrome source with colour turned up, i'll test that when I get the Test Cards.

Quote:
Maybe a menu shot from the DVD player with the colour control turned down will show a better illustration.
I've not got a DVD player, just a VCR, which only shows a blue screen when not playing anything so i'll have to do the test cards, as suggested

Thank you all for your help
'77
19Seventy7 is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2020, 9:25 am   #15
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

As you have found out by turning the colour control down, the halo effect or as you described colour bleed goes then I am confident that this is not a fault but because the STB creates very sharp edges to its internally produced TV menu.

These have the effect of generating high frequency spurious signals which fool the colour decoder.

The lines in the dark portion of the picture are flyback lines caused by the screen voltage being over advanced I earlier mentioned.

The capacitor mentioned when failed causes the picture to be dark one side and bright the other. One of the reasons Sony amongst others were so successful is because the components they used had a long service life, way beyond the norm UK manufacturers were using.

By all means get hold of test card images but if, as stated, you are new to the hobby beware that whilst the Sony KV1330 designed in 1968 was at the time cutting edge, it does have some flaws and you can spend hours adjusting this and that and get nowhere. I've done this myself!!

On the other hand, should you wish to learn the effects of adjusting the pre-set controls whilst you don't always need the service manual it does help if only to locate where they have been hidden and what, for example, horizontal tilt or amp means and why there is a cable coming out of the tube neck.

Chris
simpsons is offline  
Old 20th Jul 2020, 3:38 pm   #16
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,306
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Hi,

Sorry for delay but got photos, they might help? I didn't think it was a fault either, to be honest, after testing other inputs anyway.

Does anyone have any info on how to adjust the screen voltage properly? A look online has only brought up modern TVs. Don't want to mess it up more than it already is.

I have been in the hobby for just over a year now, so have experience on sets. I've a T24 chassis that I've done a fair bit of experimenting on so have an idea of what adjustments do. I've never had a sony before, and know they're a fair bit different to what im used to. Still learning. I'd rather not "fix whats not broken" in a sense with this set, I'd hate to mess it up when it's working as is.

Unfortunately couldn't display PM5544, so went with Test Card F.

The first photo of Test Card C is with the colour control up, not entirely but giving a decent colour photo on Test Card F. The second photo, Test Card F, is with the colour turned right down. The third photo is with the set just out of tune, producing a monochrome picture, with the colour back to normal.

Edit: The halo effect on Test Card C's 'hatching' isn't as obvious in person. I think that's due to my phone camera making it so obvious.

Thanks
'77
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TCC- Colour.jpg
Views:	170
Size:	75.5 KB
ID:	211422   Click image for larger version

Name:	TCF - Colour down.jpg
Views:	158
Size:	60.9 KB
ID:	211423   Click image for larger version

Name:	TCF - Tuning.jpg
Views:	170
Size:	84.4 KB
ID:	211424  

Last edited by 19Seventy7; 20th Jul 2020 at 3:49 pm.
19Seventy7 is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2020, 12:13 am   #17
simpsons
Octode
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Harrow, London, UK.
Posts: 1,483
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

The on screen photos confirm that the set you purchased does give a very good account for itself. Grey scale, geometry and convergence are near perfect. There is no colour bleed seen which would be caused by a low emission cathode on one of the CRT "guns."

The colouring apparent on the high frequency or fine detail part of the of the Test Card is an illustration of how the set is tricked into showing the multiple colours on the STB Menu.

The screen adjustment is on the CRT base. The printed circuit panel which connects the vrious voltages and RGB colour to the tube. It is marked Screen and turning it anti clockwise as seen frm the back of the set, will reduce the screen, known as G2 voltage by Sony and A1 voltage by almost everyone else. This will remove the flyback lines on dark scenes but watch the grey scale. Should it become slightly coloured REDUCE that colour using the BKG or background colour adjustment, the location clearly shown on the back cover and repeated on the printed circuit.

Good luck

Chris
simpsons is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2020, 1:31 am   #18
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,306
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Thank you for explaining that. I'll do it tomorrow, well... later... I did wonder if it was just a case of altering The RGB backgrounds for greyscale, but didn't want to risk it. It does have a bit of a red hue anyway, so it needs the red bkg adjusting, but wanted to sort these lines out before anything.

Thanks again
'77
19Seventy7 is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2020, 8:52 am   #19
Andrew2
Nonode
 
Andrew2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 2,034
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

We saw quite a few of these on our bench in the 1980's, most of them originally purchased in the 70's. All the customers said they had been 100% trouble-free until they began to notice a slight 'pink-ness' to the picture. All the 1320/1330 models seemed to go this way as a result of an ageing Trintron tube (it was so common we called it the 'pinkture'), and we would simply adjust it out.
Fantastic sets that seemed to go on forever.
My memory is a bit foggy now, but ISTR they did not respond to the tube-cooker very well.
__________________
Andy G1HBE.
Andrew2 is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2020, 11:54 pm   #20
19Seventy7
Octode
 
19Seventy7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,306
Default Re: Sony KV1330UB

Hi,

Quick update, adjusting screen didn't do anything to the lines, I restored screen back to normal. There now seems to be a darker band about 2" thick about 1" down from the top of the screen when on a solid colour, my phone camera wouldn't pick it up, but it's noticeable. Playing video through it the bar disappears.

Thanks
'77
19Seventy7 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 1:57 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.