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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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7th Jul 2021, 8:29 pm | #61 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Durham, County Durham, UK.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
It’s nearly two years ago since I collected this Ferguson 59P7 fitted with the infamous Thomson ICC5 chassis, as you will recall it was saved by Rich from a skip alongside other stuff bound for the great showroom in the sky. Lots of things have happened since, Covid of course and I now have a new workshop I probably wouldn’t have driven from the North East to save it if I hadn’t been due to collect a new company car in Derby, it was just another hour or so further down the road to Peterborough.
The set has sat waiting to be looked at since then and with the new workshop almost fully operational I decided it was time to haul it onto the bench. Rich had given it a look over previously, had found a s/c ceramic cap on the mains filter board and had what looked like a very dim raster. Exactly the same symptoms were seen when I tried it here but the dim display on the screen was not a raster, the set in actual fact had field collapse but due to DC flowing in the scan coils no characteristic horizontal line could be seen. The electron beam was aimed way above the top of the phosphors, the illumination was due to random electrons being reflected back in a diffuse manner after hitting the CRT bowl. On seeing this I was fairly certain that this would be a fairly easy repair, dry joints or an o/c RF01 immediately sprang to mind but although examining the PCB indeed there were many poor joints but attending to these and an ohms check on the resistor was fruitless. Looking at the circuit shows the ICC5 to be very unusual in employing a thyristor in series with the scan coils and a winding on the LOPT. The majority of the frame processing is buried in IL14 a TEA2029C IC, checks showed a healthy sawtooth at pin 5 but nothing at pin 4. I removed the thyristor DL22 but tests proved it to be blameless, even changing IL14 still refused to generate any output. The problem with these later field circuits is that you have a kind of chicken and egg situation where the driver won’t give any output unless there’s some feedback. A little trick I learned was to generated some artificial feedback and see if it would open the driver. A wet finger on the feedback pin 2 immediately produce a rather ragged 50Hz buzz from the LOPT and a rather contorted field scan on the CRT. I soon found the height pot in the feedback path to be o/c, a first for me on an ICC5. On fitting a replacement and switching on the results took my breath away, the picture was very good, probably as a good as the day as the set was unboxed. I knew the CRT would be decent but not this good. The chassis shows no signs of PCB heating in the usual places either so I suspect may be a low hours set. Well done for saving it Rich, it was well worth it and shows what a decent performer and how serviceable the ICC5 was when you got to know it, The IMC version and other ICC chassis that followed later from Thomson really deserved their terrible reputation, One last thing the set had a little surprise for me, while I had the set plugged it but not turned on the RIFA cap or WIMA in my case let go while my back was turned filling the my nice new workshop with white acrid smoke and leaving an awful smell for many days. The filter network unfortunately is on the unswitched side of the mains. |
7th Jul 2021, 8:48 pm | #62 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 4,990
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
I bet that set went wrong early on in its life and was put to one side due to a perceived difficult fault and languished in storage for many years until finally thrown out. It's certainly a cracking picture!
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7th Jul 2021, 10:51 pm | #63 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Absolutely brilliant. That's how I remember those sets. Sets equipped with Mullard tubes displayed better pictures than those with Videocolor tubes.
DFWB. |
7th Jul 2021, 11:31 pm | #64 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Amazing, so happy to see it working. I'll have my own 59P7 soon as 'Welsh Anorak' has kindly offered me his one. Cant wait to get it
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8th Jul 2021, 8:47 am | #65 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
That is a good one.
The Videocolor tubes tended to give 'red hot tails' on bright picture edges but their emission appeared to be OK. I have never seen an ICC5 with a Mullard tube. Oh yes, the RIFA cap.. It's in a little plastic box if I remember. I wonder how many of these models were thrown out due to this frightening experience in fact how many electrical items of all sorts. John. |
8th Jul 2021, 7:38 pm | #66 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 2,473
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Nice one JC
I have had that fault a handful of times, but as you say it is not one of the more usual fault/s that causes this symptom. I have had to replace quite a few of the other pots along "the back wall" on this chassis before as well, but not for this fault but because they have gone extremely noisy/scratchy and you couldn't set up the geometry properly. The TEA2029C (IL14) chip is very reliable on this chassis and only very, very rarely to blame for faults, I have replaced it myself many times as well (as I had spare ICs to hand) as it is easier to rule it out early doors when you have some of the more obscure faults. If you want to reset the child lock Pin number on these go into reset Pin menu the press the usual RGB and Y for five seconds that is commonly used for just clearing the child lock, this then allows you to change to a new Pin no. Incidentally if the Pin has never been changed from new then the factory default code was 0000
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8th Jul 2021, 7:44 pm | #67 |
Octode
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Willington, County Durham, UK.
Posts: 1,498
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
A message could be displayed, Another fine set from Ferguson, the image makers by holding down a couple of the front control buttons.
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Malc Scott |
8th Jul 2021, 7:53 pm | #68 |
Nonode
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 2,473
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Yes Malc that was the Point of Sale message, it only still worked though if certain channel positions hadn't been renamed/over written, something like channel positions from beyond 10 to 30 IIRC, which reminds me, you also had to check all of the channel positions before re-sale in case someone had renamed them with naughty four lettered words
Ps. I probably have the details for calling up the PoS message, it was something along the lines of pressing and holding Vol up and CH down on the sets local buttons while switching the set on at the main switch, or vice versa, I could probably look it up if wanted.
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I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. Last edited by Red to black; 8th Jul 2021 at 8:13 pm. |
8th Jul 2021, 9:52 pm | #69 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Anyone fancy giving my Ferguson 51K5 a good home? The set has the 21" 110degree tube so it is very compact. It's been upstairs above the shop since 1994.
Don't want to kick it down the stairs, that's reserved for Fidelity AVS2000s. DFWB. |
8th Jul 2021, 10:03 pm | #70 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
I'd love to take it, My parents had a 51K5 When i was a baby, either a K5 or L5, same design anyway. I'd need to arrange a courier for it to bring it to Ireland if you could pack it up?
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8th Jul 2021, 10:12 pm | #71 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Hi Luke,
you are most welcome to the set but goodness knows what it is like after been in storage almost thirty years. I'll take a picture of the set tomorrow. It's complete with stand and there might well be the correct remote control handset for it somewhere in the shop. DFWB. |
8th Jul 2021, 10:13 pm | #72 | |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Quote:
I've sent you a PM
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8th Jul 2021, 10:18 pm | #73 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
Posts: 492
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Would love to see the pics of it, if you cant find the remote its not the end of the world, could always grab one from eBay
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8th Jul 2021, 10:28 pm | #74 |
Heptode
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Durham, County Durham, UK.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Oh I forgot to mention, a big thanks to Ed Dinning for supplying a remote. Ed kindly donated a box of remotes containing a 3V23 type which I been after some time back, I had a rummage through it and found a Konig copy for this set. This allowed correct adjustment and storing of the customer settings.
John. |
8th Jul 2021, 10:42 pm | #75 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
As its ICC5 related, here's the only picture I have of our 51K5 from when i was a baby.
there was several of these sets with identical design, can anyone clarify what the differences where (if any) with the models 51K5 51L5 51L7 etc.
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8th Jul 2021, 10:55 pm | #76 |
Nonode
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Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
I probably can in a day or two if someone else doesn't before me, I will have a look for you though.
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8th Jul 2021, 11:28 pm | #77 |
Nonode
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Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
51K5 =Nicam 110 degree crt
51L7= mono sound 110 degree crt I don't have the sheets for the 51L5, however there are very slight differences to the case styling between the 51K5 and the 51L7 possibly due to one being mono and the other stereo, it is possible the 51L5 could have very different styling I obviously don't know, it could be that they used different Nicam decoders as there were at least two used in the ICC5, I thought the styling was the same but it is so long ago now.
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9th Jul 2021, 1:34 am | #78 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...)
Thanks Red to Black
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9th Jul 2021, 3:02 pm | #79 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...) Ferguson 59P7A.
Well done John ! I am pleased the set was saved it was worth it. I think it must have come from a customer who didn't use it much for it to survive this long.
There may not be any more in the future as my mate is thinking of retiring. The firm has had two big contracts go, the first was Freemans and now John Lewis has closed. This Ferguson came from a JL customer who had bought a new set. My mate's firm would install the new sets and take away the old one if required. I got a few nice low mileage old timers that way. The picture on the Ferguson is remarkably good and better than I remember them being when they were still in service. I think the ones I used to see must have been the ones with Videocolour tubes. Rich |
9th Jul 2021, 3:44 pm | #80 |
Hexode
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
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Re: Not saved (Oh go on then...) Ferguson 59P7A.
Just bought this from a local supplier, i'll have two ICC5's at some point so I reckon this will come in handy
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