51K5 Arrived Destroyed

[IKC2E51R8]

While some might be happy to see the demise of an ICC5 for me im very sad. The 51K5 that David kindly offered to me arrived this afternoon and it didnt survive the journey.

The tube neck was severed and pulled apart, two of the CRT mounting studs were broken off and the cabinet has sustained a crack in the bottom left corner, the plastic holders that secure the back to the set were all severed off.

The chassis looks to be ok and about the only thing that survived.

Unless I can get a replacement 110 degree tube this set wont live again. I was thinking it could be modified to take 90 degree tube but then i dont think the cabinet would accomodate it depth wise.

see pics below of how it arrived.

If anyone miracullously has a spare 21" 110 degree tube they could donate it would be appreciated I realise the odds of finding one are slim to none.

[Welsh Anorak]

Oh dear - that's a shame, especially as I know you were looking forward to adding a 21" ICC5 to your collection.
I don't think I can help with a CRT but do post the tube number as I think it was a fairly standard Philips 21" 45AX and one of us might have one.
The cabinet could be repaired - it won't be perfect but better than seeing it just used for spares. Do have a very close look at the chassis below the LOPT and chopper tranformers in case of damage.
I wouldn't think the idea of a 90 degree tube is feasible - better to wait and see if a correct tube turns up.

[IKC2E51R8]

Thanks Glyn. Very dissappointed. But i knew the risk involved. The 59P7 arrived in perfect condition, I held out hope that it would have arrived as safely as the P7.

The 45AX Tube in it is a: A51EAK01X04. Hopefully someone has a spare they could send.

The chassis did actually sustain a small crack and chip around the SMPS unit which should be fixable and the 2 damaged mounts for the tube severed cleanly so i should be able to repair that similar to how i repaired the IKC2 set from last year as the studs are the same so I can use the same method which should work fine.

If anyone has one of these tubes they could offer Id gladly pay to have it safely transported over.

[bobhowe]

Hi Luke what a shame seen the set in Davids Shop it had been upstairs for 27 years along shot go to your recycling centre and show them a picture of your set you never know and keep looking on the internet and Freecycle Ebay and Gumtree to name a few

[IKC2E51R8]

I've been wondering, If I took the Nicam module from the 51K5 and put it in the 59P7A would that work? I know the ICC5 was very verstile with swappable boards. Would it really be that simple though?

Originally Posted by bobhowe

Hi Luke what a shame seen the set in Davids Shop it had been upstairs for 27 years along shot go to your recycling centre and show them a picture of your set you never know and keep looking on the internet and Freecycle Ebay and Gumtree to name a few

Gutted it didnt make it over in one piece. I have to live in hope to find another one, I know Ferguson pushed this range alot so im hoping theres a few surviving ones out there, tucked away in someones attic or shed awaiting a new home.

[FERNSEH]

Hi Luke,
I'm really saddened about this. Was really delighted when it sprang back to life last week. I sold a fair number of the 25" models like the 59K7 and only a few 59K5 NICAM models. The 51K5 sold only in limited numbers. Almost all customers opted for the larger screen sets because there wasn't much in it as far as price goes. One never knows, someone might have kept a 57K7 for one reason or other.
None of the rented sets exist anymore.
Rest assured I'll be on the lookout for another similar set.

DFWB.

[IKC2E51R8]

Me too david. The tube has gone out to the garden to await scrapping, the cabinet and chassis is in my room, the chassis has lent its E/W IC to the 59P7 until such a time i can find a replacment tube. Good news is the CRT mounts can easily be fixed so when a tube shows up i'll be able to securly fit it. Id love a 59K7 if theres any about too

Do you know if the Nicam module will work in the 59P7 by simply adding the nicam module from the 51K5?

[Red to black]

Originally Posted by IKC2E51R8

Do you know if the Nicam module will work in the 59P7 by simply adding the nicam module from the 51K5?

No it won't,
the PSU VS (lopt derived supply) is 36V for the Nicam models and only 23V for the Mono sets.

There are quite a few subtle changes in the IF section for the sound take off and SAWF for Nicam equipped sets.

I thought the Microprocessors were different for Nicam models mask Ferg 07 and Ferg 05 for most of the mono sets, although looking at the circuits for the different models the diagrams suggests not, however I think that is a misprint on the diagrams because I was fairly sure the stereo sets definitely had a different mask to cater for the balance and better tone controls for the Nicam sets.

There are many other less visible changes to the main boards between the versions too!

[IKC2E51R8]

Originally Posted by Red to black

No it won't,
the PSU VS (lopt derived supply) is 36V for the Nicam models and only 23V for the Mono sets.

There are quite a few subtle changes in the IF section for the sound take off and SAWF for Nicam equipped sets.

I thought the Microprocessors were different for Nicam models mask Ferg 07 and Ferg 05 for most of the mono sets, although looking at the circuits for the different models the diagrams suggests not, however I think that is a misprint on the diagrams because I was fairly sure the stereo sets definitely had a different mask to cater for the balance and better tone controls for the Nicam sets.

There are many other less visible changes to the main boards between the versions too!

Thats a shame. the processor in my 59P7 is Ferg 07 though but I had a feeling there would be some other subtle changes needed

[slidertogrid]

That really is a shame . I know I have joked about the ICC series but it is a shame to see one destroyed like that..
Sending fragile items by courier is very risky if you saw the height boxes are dropped from in transit you would be shocked. My other half worked for RM for many years and it was not uncommon for boxes to be thrown off the back of a lorry tail lift onto a concrete floor. No TV set no matter how well packed is going to survive that.
Specialist couriers are much safer but of course come at a price.
I will keep a look out at the house clearance skip that sometimes comes up with a result, the problem is though how to get a tube to you in one piece if one is found...
Rich

[Red to black]

There were also at least two different Nicam boards, one was two boards wide with the heatsink sandwiched between the two on earlier Nicam models, and then the Nicam II boards on later models with a more integrated chipset which only had the heatsink around a single board (the third version was on some later German TFK sets then a different one again on the French built IMC UK Ferguson "Soundline" versions).
There were also subtle but significant differences around any headphone sockets where this was included.

The ICC5 (and earlier/later ICC chassis) had an incredible amount of changes across the different versions, no wonder Thomson 'allegedly' lost money on them!

It was quite a task just to track the differences on the relatively small Thorn versions range!

When you consider TFK, Saba, Nordmende B&O as well as Thomson themselves all had different ranges and features that were all different in many significant ways, plus The IMC range which was very different again, it must have been a nightmare for Thomson to to keep up, never mind us!.

Some of the Continental sets used Hitachi microprocessors (instead of the ITT CCU chip with MD2061 EEPROM used on the Thorn sets) attendant with a very different user interface and used battery backup here as well as on the text board to memorise pages as well on those versions, so two backup batteries on these sets, and even on these sets could be fitted either rechargeable Nicads, or non-re-chargeable Lithium types, again with circuitry differences between the same model types.

Our Thorn/Ferguson sets were far simpler with very little of the multi-standard capabilities left, and mostly removed, compared to our Continental cousins, we got off fairly lightly with this chassis.

Edit: there was also the so-called "Q" suffix models within the later Thorn range of similar models which had a modified S-Video input to the scart socket interface (another small daughter board added) and IIRC they had a slightly different micro mask number again, Ferg 06 springs to mind here.

[IKC2E51R8]

Originally Posted by slidertogrid

That really is a shame . I know I have joked about the ICC series but it is a shame to see one destroyed like that..
Sending fragile items by courier is very risky if you saw the height boxes are dropped from in transit you would be shocked. My other half worked for RM for many years and it was not uncommon for boxes to be thrown off the back of a lorry tail lift onto a concrete floor. No TV set no matter how well packed is going to survive that.
Specialist couriers are much safer but of course come at a price.
I will keep a look out at the house clearance skip that sometimes comes up with a result, the problem is though how to get a tube to you in one piece if one is found...
Rich

In my experiance ive had very few sets damaged and only three with completly destroyed tubes as a result of transit - the 51K5 and that Sony Trinitron I had plus a little portably that i only wanted the board from anyway. Every other set has more or less arrived in the condition it left the original owner. ive had about 40 sets over the years brought over and they've always been fine, with those exceptions. The IKC2 i got last year had a lot of casing damage but the tube in that survived. Other than that they are usually fine.

The 59P7 I got arrived in perfect condition from Wales. I've even had a 28" Sharp CA10 set brought over nearly 10 years ago and its still working perfect - and the seller just placed it in a box for a 50" sony LCD they just bought and taped it shut with no additional padding

It really is luck of the draw, the same courier brought both the 59P7 and 51K5 over, they both departed from the same facility and made the same journey, the 59 survived and sadly the 51 didnt.

Im probably going to try get a B&O MX300/4000 brought over next, they use the 21" 110° Tubes too so if I manage to do it I could have the K5 up and running again.

I would appreciate anyone keeping an eye out for a 21" set with a 110° Tube for me, or even another 51K5 or its bigger brother 59K5/K7.

[IKC2E51R8]

Originally Posted by Red to black

There were also at least two different Nicam boards, one was two boards wide with the heatsink sandwiched between the two on earlier Nicam models, and then the Nicam II boards on later models with a more integrated chipset which only had the heatsink around a single board (the third version was on some later German TFK sets then a different one again on the French built IMC UK Ferguson "Soundline" versions).
There were also subtle but significant differences around any headphone sockets where this was included.

The ICC5 (and earlier/later ICC chassis) had an incredible amount of changes across the different versions, no wonder Thomson 'allegedly' lost money on them!

It was quite a task just to track the differences on the relatively small Thorn versions range!

When you consider TFK, Saba, Nordmende B&O as well as Thomson themselves all had different ranges and features that were all different in many significant ways, plus The IMC range which was very different again, it must have been a nightmare for Thomson to to keep up, never mind us!.

Some of the Continental sets used Hitachi microprocessors (instead of the ITT CCU chip with MD2061 EEPROM used on the Thorn sets) attendant with a very different user interface and used battery backup here as well as on the text board to memorise pages as well on those versions, so two backup batteries on these sets, and even on these sets could be fitted either rechargeable Nicads, or non-re-chargeable Lithium types, again with circuitry differences between the same model types.

Our Thorn/Ferguson sets were far simpler with very little of the multi-standard capabilities left, and mostly removed, compared to our Continental cousins, we got off fairly lightly with this chassis.

Edit: there was also the so-called "Q" suffix models within the later Thorn range of similar models which had a modified S-Video input to the scart socket interface (another small daughter board added) and IIRC they had a slightly different micro mask number again, Ferg 06 springs to mind here.

My 51K5 has the one with the two boards and heatsink sandwiched in between. The sound on the 59P7 is fine anyway, was just a random idea that popped into my head. Ideally I want to keep the K5 board untouched with the exception of the EW IC and the vertical Pots its donated to my P7 to get it runnning again.

I've figured out how the damage happend, after looking closely at the damage and the way the tube neck was severed and theres a mark on the flyback it seems at some point during the transport the two little plastic legs on the frame that surrounds the board that hook into the bottom of the cabinet snapped off, when this happened the board was somewhat free to roam about the cabinet, it looks like it was jostled or dropped at some point and the back corner of the flyback (where the A1 & Focus pots would normally be) hit the neck with some force and severed it. If the chassis hadnt broke free i think the tube would have survived and only the cabinet might have needed some attention.

[IKC2E51R8]

And there she sits awaiting a replacment Tube.
As I understand it there is five 21" Philips 110° Tubes. All A51EAK01X -01 to X05. Any of these would presumably do to get this set running again.

[slidertogrid]

I went to the house clearance place today, there was plenty of sets by the skip mostly late 80s or early 90s. Nothing worth saving and nothing with a suitable tube as far as I could see, the 21" sets all appeared to be PIL 90 degree.
I'll keep looking!
Rich

[IKC2E51R8]

TE]

Thanks Rich, I appreciate it, Hopefully something turns up. The only sets that I can currently see have them is the Old B&O stuff, Therse a few on eBay that ive contacted the sellers about but no word as of yet.

The only sets I can see for sale in ireland is all Vestel junk with 90° tubes and even they are few and far between. The UK has a much better market it seems for old TV's.

[John123]

I believe John Joe aka linescan87 is somewhere around your way. His rather excellent YouTube channel can be found here. Perhaps he can help?

[linescan87]

Hi, I have been following this thread. A real shame especially as it was working so well for David. Unfortunately I don't have anything suitable but I will keep an eye out.

Hope you get sorted either way 👍.

[IKC2E51R8]

Thank you, I really appreciate it. Hopefully something turns up. I have the set safely stored in the attic until such time i find a tube for it.

[Maarten]

Grundig and Blaupunkt had a few 110 degrees 51cm models. I don't know if they were sold in Ireland.