Vortexion WVB mono reel to reel. - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Diabolical Artificer · 15th Jul 2022, 11:21 am

I'm trying to get this vintage Vortexion WVB R2R working, a MK3 I think. So far I've replaced all the big electrolytics, all the heater wiring as well as various other perished rubber wiring, quite a few out of spec resistors and other various bits and bobs.

I got it working ish but noticed a recorded 1khz tone was varying in frequency - wow and flutter? I noticed the tape was catching on the take up reel rim, every revolution, the tape "bed" was tilted. After checking the "plate" all the motors etc sit on with a straight edge I looked at the motor mountings. The motor assembly is fixed to the plate by three hexagonal stand offs, under these someone had put washers of varying thickness, held with bluetack, odd but probably to aid assembly. Next I mic'ed the standoffs and got odd results.

Standoffs RHS 717, 719 & 662 thou, LHS 670, 656 & 599 thou. One "leg" of the LHS motor was floating, the RHS was well wonky. Would Wearite/Ferrograph have used different standoff lengths then leveled with washers? Seems doubtful. I thought for a minute the previous owner or whoever had got the standoffs mixed up between left and RHS, if you allow for about 10 thou tolerance then one side might be 670, 656 & 662 thou, but that would mean the other side would be 717, 719 & 599 thou, well out. Any ideas what's going on?

I looked at a Brennel deck I have, they use plastic standoff's of equal length which you'd presume Wearite/Ferrograph would also have done. It adds lots of factory assembly time if each motor mount has to be trimmed individually.

Andy.

BillDWVA · 15th Jul 2022, 2:33 pm

Hi Andy,
I think the washers under the three motor standoffs was the method used originally to level the motor spindles as I’ve found them too when replacing a motor on a WVA. The height of the hub adapters can be adjusted by simply unlocking the hex socket head screw that clamps them to the motor spindles.
If the wow is regular check also that there is no idler wheel slip on the capstan drive and that the capstan motor is properly ‘locked’ on frequency. The phase-shift cap can give rise to problems here.
Bill

Uncle Bulgaria · 15th Jul 2022, 3:20 pm

My Ferrograph 4A has wonky reels. I didn't realise when taking it apart that the standoff washers were for levelling rather than just mechanical bearing. I've been told by someone on here that the washer method was indeed how they did it, and I agree it sounds bizarre. The difficulty of holding the washers in place to work out which goes where is why I have yet to properly attack the job!

Diabolical Artificer · 15th Jul 2022, 4:47 pm

Thanks both, I spotted the table grub screws.... so, it was factory, still weird though, as I said Brennel didn't do it this way but they used different motors. The only reason I can see to use this method is if the motors themselves are wonky, which they shouldn't be. I notice the Brennel seems to be better made, thicker plate to mount everything on, better motors each with a motor run cap etc. That said it's a later deck I think, my WVB I guess is late 50's.

For now I've shimmed the four shorter standoffs with washers to 718 thou which is the length of the two longest standoffs, give or take a few thou and the tables look level. I'm using a foot straight edge to "amplify" any tilt of the tables. To get it bang on though I'd need either a clock or 1 2 3 blocks and feeler gauges I presume. Wonder how they did it?

The capstan cap is in spec, IE 0.75u and the idler wheels look ok but will check em anyway onec the reel tables are level.

Andy.

barrymagrec · 15th Jul 2022, 6:15 pm

If I remember correctly the Wearite deck, though not particularly thick is pressed so much more rigid than the early flat plate Brenell machines. As the spool motor mounting points are not all at the same level a degree of shimming is to be expected.

A clock gauge on the tables would be the proper way to set them but a straight edge across the spool tables should be good enough.

I changed a spool motor on a Leevers Rich on site once and in the absence of a clock gauge I set height and verticality of the new motor by eye - no subsequent problems.

15th Jul 2022, 11:21 am	#1
Diabolical Artificer Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK. Posts: 7,658	Vortexion WVB mono reel to reel. I'm trying to get this vintage Vortexion WVB R2R working, a MK3 I think. So far I've replaced all the big electrolytics, all the heater wiring as well as various other perished rubber wiring, quite a few out of spec resistors and other various bits and bobs. I got it working ish but noticed a recorded 1khz tone was varying in frequency - wow and flutter? I noticed the tape was catching on the take up reel rim, every revolution, the tape "bed" was tilted. After checking the "plate" all the motors etc sit on with a straight edge I looked at the motor mountings. The motor assembly is fixed to the plate by three hexagonal stand offs, under these someone had put washers of varying thickness, held with bluetack, odd but probably to aid assembly. Next I mic'ed the standoffs and got odd results. Standoffs RHS 717, 719 & 662 thou, LHS 670, 656 & 599 thou. One "leg" of the LHS motor was floating, the RHS was well wonky. Would Wearite/Ferrograph have used different standoff lengths then leveled with washers? Seems doubtful. I thought for a minute the previous owner or whoever had got the standoffs mixed up between left and RHS, if you allow for about 10 thou tolerance then one side might be 670, 656 & 662 thou, but that would mean the other side would be 717, 719 & 599 thou, well out. Any ideas what's going on? I looked at a Brennel deck I have, they use plastic standoff's of equal length which you'd presume Wearite/Ferrograph would also have done. It adds lots of factory assembly time if each motor mount has to be trimmed individually. Andy. __________________ Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far.

15th Jul 2022, 2:33 pm	#2
BillDWVA Pentode Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Tenby, Pembrokeshire, Wales, UK. Posts: 139	Re: Vortexion WVB mono reel to reel. Hi Andy, I think the washers under the three motor standoffs was the method used originally to level the motor spindles as I’ve found them too when replacing a motor on a WVA. The height of the hub adapters can be adjusted by simply unlocking the hex socket head screw that clamps them to the motor spindles. If the wow is regular check also that there is no idler wheel slip on the capstan drive and that the capstan motor is properly ‘locked’ on frequency. The phase-shift cap can give rise to problems here. Bill

15th Jul 2022, 3:20 pm	#3
Uncle Bulgaria Nonode Join Date: May 2016 Location: Cornwall, UK. Posts: 2,333	Re: Vortexion WVB mono reel to reel. My Ferrograph 4A has wonky reels. I didn't realise when taking it apart that the standoff washers were for levelling rather than just mechanical bearing. I've been told by someone on here that the washer method was indeed how they did it, and I agree it sounds bizarre. The difficulty of holding the washers in place to work out which goes where is why I have yet to properly attack the job!

15th Jul 2022, 4:47 pm	#4
Diabolical Artificer Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sleaford, Lincs. UK. Posts: 7,658	Re: Vortexion WVB mono reel to reel. Thanks both, I spotted the table grub screws.... so, it was factory, still weird though, as I said Brennel didn't do it this way but they used different motors. The only reason I can see to use this method is if the motors themselves are wonky, which they shouldn't be. I notice the Brennel seems to be better made, thicker plate to mount everything on, better motors each with a motor run cap etc. That said it's a later deck I think, my WVB I guess is late 50's. For now I've shimmed the four shorter standoffs with washers to 718 thou which is the length of the two longest standoffs, give or take a few thou and the tables look level. I'm using a foot straight edge to "amplify" any tilt of the tables. To get it bang on though I'd need either a clock or 1 2 3 blocks and feeler gauges I presume. Wonder how they did it? The capstan cap is in spec, IE 0.75u and the idler wheels look ok but will check em anyway onec the reel tables are level. Andy. __________________ Curiosity hasn't killed this cat...so far.

15th Jul 2022, 6:15 pm	#5
barrymagrec Octode Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Morden, Surrey, UK. Posts: 1,557	Re: Vortexion WVB mono reel to reel. If I remember correctly the Wearite deck, though not particularly thick is pressed so much more rigid than the early flat plate Brenell machines. As the spool motor mounting points are not all at the same level a degree of shimming is to be expected. A clock gauge on the tables would be the proper way to set them but a straight edge across the spool tables should be good enough. I changed a spool motor on a Leevers Rich on site once and in the absence of a clock gauge I set height and verticality of the new motor by eye - no subsequent problems.