UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 26th Oct 2020, 7:24 pm   #1
Mark Trotman
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Westbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 51
Default Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Hi
Have a little knowledge of these, but is a head change full of problems and after new head fitted does the alignment of the tape path need to be adjusted?
Thanks
Mark
Mark Trotman is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2020, 9:36 pm   #2
Graham G3ZVT
Dekatron
 
Graham G3ZVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

In theory yes, but in practice I found, more often than not, it was so close it was not worth disturbing the inclined guides at all, and at most, all that needed adjusting was the cone that moves the A/C head laterally to centralise the tracking control when replaying a reference tape.
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
Graham G3ZVT is offline  
Old 26th Oct 2020, 10:08 pm   #3
Mark Trotman
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Westbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 51
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Thank you very much. Did the alignment adjustment need a special tool to adjust the tracking as I believe I did these adjustments many times at Radio Rentals ��
Mark Trotman is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 10:32 am   #4
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

In theory the guides need a special slotted tool to adjust but more often than not a small screwdriver could be used with care. Often they needed little if any adjustment. Head switching and preset tracking just needed a standard trimming tool. I doubt Radio Rentals would have insisted on a full alignment!
__________________
Glyn
www.gdelectronics.wales
Welsh Anorak is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 3:41 pm   #5
Mark Trotman
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Westbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 51
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Thank you! My memory is bad now but one of my jobs was to put a reference tape in and checked/adjusted the tracking by a screw behind the sound head. Was this not tracking as I thought?
Thank you
Mark Trotman is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 6:10 pm   #6
Graham G3ZVT
Dekatron
 
Graham G3ZVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

We didn't do many 3Vxx machines at Granada, my experience began with the Hitachi 5000 series, but on the basis one top-loading VHS is much the same as any other...

... there are a number of adjustments that impact tracking, and in different ways.
The screw immediately behind the A/C head is to set its perpendicularity, quite difficult to do by eye alone, we had a simple jig in the workshop. Best left alone unless you changed the A/C head, not as critical as what comes next

The screw at the side of the A/C head, the one without the coil spring, is for setting the audio azimuth, it's very critical but also very easy to adjust routinely as long as you have a test tape with a tone of about 6kHz recorded on the linear sound track
It is essential this tape is accurate with zero azimuth tilt. Back in the day when we were unboxing brand new fresh from the factory machines, this wasn't hard to make trustworthy recordings our own.

On the chassis to the left of the little assembly upon which the A/C head is mounted is a brass cone with a split slot for adjustment. This moves the entire assembly laterally against a spring, and has the same effect as the user's "tracking" control. If you find after changing the drum the user's tracking control is near one end of its travel to get a noise-free picture when playing most commercial pre-recorded tapes, you can being it into the center using this cone, but don't go mad otherwise you'll get lip sync issues with pre recs.

This is what I like to think of as "static tracking" moving the track so it encounters the heads as they swing by.

There is the whole other issue of the track angle ("dynamic tracking" if you will) set by the inclined guide-rollers, the ones that move and wrap the tape round the drum. Ideally you need to look at the FM carrier coming from the head amps on a scope and adjust for best flatness on an alignment tape. As I said you will probably not need to touch that and it's just as well.
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT

Last edited by Graham G3ZVT; 27th Oct 2020 at 6:33 pm.
Graham G3ZVT is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 6:27 pm   #7
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Never needed to adjust tape path through head change in all the many I have done on VHS machines.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 10:29 pm   #8
Graham G3ZVT
Dekatron
 
Graham G3ZVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Quote:
Originally Posted by HamishBoxer View Post
Never needed to adjust tape path through head change in all the many I have done on VHS machines.
It's certainly a testament on how accurately head drums are machined.
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
Graham G3ZVT is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 10:41 pm   #9
tony brady
Hexode
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Peacehaven, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 278
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

and how well the head heights were set up.

when we fitted new heads to production units one head was set to 3 microns above the other using a microscope - there is a hole in the deck plate where it was attached
tony brady is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2020, 10:44 pm   #10
davyrocket2
Pentode
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Westgate On Sea, Kent, UK.
Posts: 246
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

On the 3 V series just make sure that the loading belt is good and that the tape guides are going into the V blocks properly apart from that I doubt you will have too do any adjustments of the tape guides they are reliable machines apart from bad belts a the cassette lamp failing make sure the pinch roller is good and the felt band on the back tension band has not fallen off
davyrocket2 is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 12:07 am   #11
Mark Trotman
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Westbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 51
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Thank you for all your help.
Really appreciated
Mark Trotman is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 12:27 am   #12
Mark Trotman
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Westbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 51
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

I have such an interest in these early machines. Some people love restoring cars well I feel the same about these VCRs! I am nearly 60 but love all the parts moving and producing a picture and you can actually take them apart for servicing. I realise this is very old technology and have so much to learn. I guess training courses are no more so have no idea where to start looking for knowledge. I know a lot of work needs oscilloscope but maybe these old ones are still available now but have no idea what to buy let alone use one! Lol. Appreciate all your help.
Mark Trotman is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 12:31 am   #13
Graham G3ZVT
Dekatron
 
Graham G3ZVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony brady View Post
and how well the head heights were set up.

when we fitted new heads to production units one head was set to 3 microns above the other using a microscope - there is a hole in the deck plate where it was attached
I guess you were doing this sort of work

https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/ID...-Page-0020.pdf

https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/ID...-Page-0021.pdf
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
Graham G3ZVT is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 12:33 am   #14
jayceebee
Heptode
 
jayceebee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Durham, County Durham, UK.
Posts: 640
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Replacing the drum on a 2 head machine required little, if any realignment. 4 and 6 head machines weren't too much trouble either until some companies started supplying remanufactured units. The quality fell off a cliff and with some suppliers getting good LP and HiFi was troublesome.

John.
jayceebee is online now  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 10:08 am   #15
tony brady
Hexode
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Peacehaven, East Sussex, UK.
Posts: 278
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
that looks more elaborate than what we were doing. when we changed an upper drum we were supposed to check the head height after we had fitted it using a microscope by spinning the drum around from CH1 to CH2 head and adjusting the allen key on the appropriate head to get the correct height difference. in practice we only did this is we saw noise bars as there was often a queue for the microscope ( only one between 2 running production lines) and the 3V31 were heavy to go walking all the way down the line to the 3rd line where the microscope was! we also did 3V32 but I don't remember the figures for the head heights
tony brady is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 11:09 am   #16
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

I do remember fitting a rather expensive NatPan S VHS head and even that was straight forward with no adjustments needed.
Also remember that head cost me £130 way back then and I paid for it as an exchange I owed someone.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 11:10 am   #17
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

That looks like rocket science to a normal busy repair shop! As Hamish Boxer says, as long as the heads were decent you bunged them in, checked the switching point, the guides and the tracking and off you went. If alignment was needed, it was usually due to a speck of dirt under the head disc or the phantom twiddler. Of course hi-fi or S-VHS discs were a very different story.
There would be no need to go near the ACE head unless that was the head that was changed.
__________________
Glyn
www.gdelectronics.wales
Welsh Anorak is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 3:54 pm   #18
Graham G3ZVT
Dekatron
 
Graham G3ZVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,676
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

I was a bit OCD with audio head azimuth Glyn.
I would always make a check by applying slight finger pressure to each side of the head while listening to the 6kHz tone from my alignment tape, if the level fell off in both cases, all well and good, but if there was an increase, then I knew which way it needed to go.

With a machine already "in service" there was a bit of a dilemma, particularly if the customer had recorded a large collection of programmes in LP mode which will of course play perfectly on that machine.
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT

Last edited by Graham G3ZVT; 28th Oct 2020 at 4:08 pm.
Graham G3ZVT is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 4:26 pm   #19
G6ONEDave
Octode
 
G6ONEDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Owston Ferry, North Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Likewise never had to adjust the tape path when replacing VHS upper drum head units. Unless of course some unknown person had been in messing about! Now Betamax, well that's a totally different ball game with that head disc unit and that eccentricity gauge.
Dave
G6ONEDave is offline  
Old 28th Oct 2020, 4:51 pm   #20
Mark Trotman
Tetrode
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Westbury, Wiltshire, UK.
Posts: 51
Default Re: Ferguson 3v30 heads renewal

Thank you all for advice 👍
Mark Trotman is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:48 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.