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Old 17th Sep 2020, 7:46 pm   #1
Marc leeds
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Default Spencer West box...

Hello one and all...

I'm fresh on the forum to seek advice on a recent find.
I'm no collector or enthusiast but have long appreciated old tech.
I was drawn to this by its proper (reassuring) switches and well patina'd metal case. The limited research suggests something tv related but that's it. It plugs in independently.
Where's the screen...that's where my knowledge is 'At'.

What does it do?

Many thanks.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 7:55 pm   #2
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

It's an example of the original "set top box", for adding ITV to a BBC only TV, or to be more technical giving a band 1 television access to band 3, where ITV was back then.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 8:21 pm   #3
Marc leeds
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Great. Thank you.

I have no knowledge of such a device.
Back in the late nineties i had various hifi setups featuring leak, wharfedale plus combos of all sorts.

I have never even encountered a set top box. Such a device simply pre dates my experiences.
This particular one, I thought of it as a radio until I got it home. Seeing no LW, MW and so forth. I had to dig deeper!

I can atleast deepen the search.

Thanks again
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 8:26 pm   #4
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Some information on Spencer’s West in this link and a photo of an advert from 1958 of the same model as you have, certainly looks it.
https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/communit...resistors-ltd/
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 8:36 pm   #5
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc leeds View Post
I have never even encountered a set top box. Such a device simply pre dates my experiences.
These days a set top box would be a sky or virgin box, although they are no longer on top of course, it's just a figure of speech. Incidentally, DAB radio is now broadcast where ITV was. Your box can't be used for anything, just a historical artefact.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 8:44 pm   #6
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

A little more info might help.

It dates back to when TV sets used to have only one channel, because there was only one channel being transmitted, with no plans for any more.

When ITV started up, most existing sets had no ability to be tuned to any other channel than the one they'd been made for. So there was a market for a converter box. The ITV transmitters used frequencies quite a long way from the ones the BBC transmitters used, so a potential ITV viewer would have a second antenna installed (both to cover the new frequency and to point at the different transmitter site) with a downlead to a converter box like the one you have. The converter box having a switch to save the viewer having to unplug the BBC antenna and plug in the converter box to his set.

After a while new sets came on the market with coverage of both BBC and ITV frequencies. Some people needed dual antennae to handle the different directions even though clever antenna design could make dual band ones. In Huddersfield, we had immensely strong signals from both Holme Moss (BBC) and Emley Moor (IBA) so one antenna was enough. Other places were more fortunate.

Of course, under the well known principle that the grass is always greener.... anyone with a BBC only set suddenly had a very powerful desire to get the new channel.

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Old 17th Sep 2020, 9:11 pm   #7
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler View Post
Of course, under the well known principle that the grass is always greener.... anyone with a BBC only set suddenly had a very powerful desire to get the new channel.

David
I was a little too young to remember the launch of ITV, but I suspect a better idiom would be a breath of fresh air. (Actually a gob full of minty fresh toothpaste) after the stuffy old BBC.

Old biddies too frail or afraid to crank round the turret tuner themselves would always want their sets left on ITV, never BBC.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 9:22 pm   #8
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Superb and interesting info so far. Thankyou.

I now realise the box was an interim and certainly pushed to obsolete status.
Must have been a 'must have' at the time. Innovation did away with them.
The advert is identical. For the images of the day.

Right now, I will coil and tuck away the cotton power lead and let it sit on the table. I'm fascinated with it.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 9:42 pm   #9
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Just a few words of support for Spencer West. They were expert coil winders producing aerial pre amplifiers and channel converters that were popular in the early days of the five BBC channels.

You may have lived in Northamptonshire receiving the BBC Television Service from Alexandra Palace. It would have been very much a fringe area with the signal fading and sensitive to local interference.

When the powerful Sutton Coldfield transmitter [100kw] opened on channel 4 in 1949 a much better signal would have been available in Northants requiring a retune of your five channel receiver.
Easy, change of aerial and a retune, done!

Now the problem arises that many early receivers were TRF receivers fix tuned to AP and could not be retuned to SC.

This is where Spencer West came in. They produced superhet converters changing the channel 4 signal to channel 1. They were very successful at it too!

Another product they produced was the type 54 pattern removal unit that removed the pattern producing BBC signal when using an aerial type converter tuned to London channel 9. It was very effective and was supplied to the GPO interference tracing unit.

With the opening of new transmitters and the increased efficiency of tuner valves the fringe areas became very much smaller resulting in a drastic reduction in demand for their specialist products. With the opening of the ITA in 1955 this led to converters that would change the ITA frequency, around 194mc/s to channel 1 frequency 45mc/s making it available on TRF receivers. They produced a range of these.

For a brief period they produced a range of television receivers with varied success. They also did a lot of development with printed circuits for I believe PYE but I may be wrong with the maker!

A clever company' I think they closed for business around 1960 and are well remembered by service engineers that were around in the 1950's. ]Not me!] Regards, John.
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Old 17th Sep 2020, 9:45 pm   #10
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Despite only having one valve the Spencer-West type 80 was quite a good Band 3 converter when used near the transmitter.
Information for the type 80 along with the two valve type 50 can be found in the 1957-58 Radio and Television servicing book.

Way back in 1960 I copied the circuit of the type 80 to make a simple band 3 converter for the Pye FV1. Instead of the ECC85 my converter employed a Mazda 30L15. The grounded grid RF amplifier was the "upper" triode, the section which usually has the half HT voltage applied to it's grid.

DFWB.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 10:54 am   #11
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Just this morning I decided to remove the casing and have a nosey inside. I have appended some images. I expect its business as usual for many members but, a revelation to me.

I like the switches in particular. I'm more than happy to strip down further and attach images should there be an interest/demand.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 5:46 pm   #12
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

'You'll wonder where the yellow went when you brush your teeth with Pepsodent' That looks like an early example of Spencer West printed circuit technique. It must have been a wonderous box of tricks back in September 1955. J.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 6:13 pm   #13
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
'You'll wonder where the yellow went when you brush your teeth with Pepsodent'
Gibbs SR is what inspired my toothpaste comment earlier, the first commercial on Associated-Rediffusion.
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Old 19th Sep 2020, 6:14 pm   #14
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

There is one other example, Marc, situated between the Fifties Spencer West era and the Digit-Al "Set Top" boxes [from 2009] used to convert older sets to digital channels. When CH4 first started in the UK [1982] anyone still watching on the Redifusion wired [cable] TV system [eg Ramsbottom-still there until 1984] could buy a convertor box that brought CH4 in on the 9 Meg carrier. I was in the Rammy Aerial district at the time but my house had the wires and I might have gone cable [just to get channel 4] if the box had not been £50. A lot of money then

Redifusion also began in the 50's. Early cable systems were only installed in areas of very poor reception. Ramsbottom is in a very deep valley. Strangely I noticed a Redifusion manhole in Bexhill when I first came here, only to find that their headquarters had been in Hastings! The coastal reception problem had been British TV on 405 lines and French TV 819, almost an exact harmonic so you could get 2 for1, ie a French image floating behind the English program!

We didn't get Ch4 for years on the Rammy Aerial Repeater. I used to record programs [direct from Winter Hill] in Bury, at my brothers house. I've never seen one of these Redifusion boxes since then, so the chances of anyone saying, like you, "What is this and what was it used for?" seems minimal. I did, eventually, get a Redifusion set though [courtesy of Mike Barker] who brought it up to Golborne from the BVWS Stores for me!

Dave W

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Old 20th Sep 2020, 12:37 am   #15
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

We had Bush's convertor for our Bush TV. It had a 12 position turret tuner, and Installation involved removing one of the tv's valves, plugging it into a socket in the convertor, and plugging the convertor's flying lead into the vacated valve socket of the TV, so no separate mains lead was required. The Spencer-West convertor is described and illustrated in a book dad bought on TV repairs and servicing circa 1960.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 7:35 am   #16
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Were boxes like this, converters, available as a rental add on, or did they have to be purchased outright by the customer?
Alan
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 8:19 am   #17
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

That’s an interesting question, I know we had a Sterling converter but the set was owned and the converter would have been purchased. Although not very old I remember the 15 inch HMV having the “set top” Sterling converter fitted and “twigs” fitted to the Band 1 H aerial. The ITA mast was plainly visible about 8Km away.
I don’t remember any problems with patterning but Holme Moss was about 45km distant, good signal but perhaps not enough to cause problems. Knowing my dad, if there had he would have had it fixed.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 9:20 am   #18
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Quote:
Originally Posted by emeritus View Post
We had Bush's convertor for our Bush TV. It had a 12 position turret tuner, and Installation involved removing one of the tv's valves, plugging it into a socket in the convertor, and plugging the convertor's flying lead into the vacated valve socket of the TV, so no separate mains lead was required. The Spencer-West convertor is described and illustrated in a book dad bought on TV repairs and servicing circa 1960.
I don't think your Bush was fitted with the TC184 Bush manufactured tuner. By your description you had a CYLDON fitted or maybe a BRAYHEAD. These were excellent involving the plug in arrangement replacing the RF and frequency changer valves with the tuner B7G/B9A plugs, heater and HT via the RF plug. I.F. injection via the Frequency changer. These were both very good tuners, the Brayhead having slightly better gain on band 3. The Cyldon was fitted in many current production receivers from 1955 to around 1961.Most of the receivers fitted with the Band 3 to band 1 aerial converters similar to the Spencer West had been replaced by 1960. They introduced the ITA to the viewing public that on the whole much preferred it to the stuffy programmes of the BBC.
John.
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 10:21 am   #19
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

This thread reminds me of when I used to go round to a mate from Schools house and their only TV had a Band 3 box fitted, but this couldn't have been before 1970-1971! - his father was shall we say "careful" with money
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Old 20th Sep 2020, 5:52 pm   #20
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Default Re: Spencer West box...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
Most of the receivers fitted with the Band 3 to band 1 aerial converters similar to the Spencer West had been replaced by 1960. They introduced the ITA to the viewing public that on the whole much preferred it to the stuffy programmes of the BBC.
John.
That’s what occurred in my home. The HMV was replaced by a Bush in 1958, no idea of its model number but would recognise the set if I saw it. What a revelation in picture quality and reliability over the HMV.
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