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Old 8th May 2020, 4:06 pm   #21
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

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I believe Manchester Airport has its own exchange with numbers in the '0161 489' sequence.
Not quite true. They had their own Private Automatic Branch eXchange at the airport. The 061/1616-489 was a block of DDI numbers. 'DDI' stands for 'Direct Dialling In' where the final digits of the telephone number were sent from the GPO/PO/BT exchange to the customer's PABX. Hence whilst the Airport PABX might have had say 3000 extensions, there would only be say 250 lines coming from the public exchange. The 'Mercury' public exchange with the 489 DDI number range on it was located in nearby Finney Lane in Heald Green not too far from the airport

In 1972, there were three Strowger Director exchanges known as 'Mercury' with the codes 061-437, 061-493 and 061-497 - the 061-437 being the exchange that was originally 061-MER before sectorisation. There was also a fourth unit a Crossbar K3 Director exchange with the code 061-436. The 061-489 numbers were on the 061-437 exchange - the origin one in the 'Mercury' group. Now a group of System X and Y exchanges for a short while longer
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Old 8th May 2020, 5:02 pm   #22
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"They would be followed by a local 3 digit code OFTEN derived from the name of the local exchange in a similar way from a dial."
Just to clear the picture a little. In a 'Director' area when it was initially formed, essentially it was a 'Linked Numbering Scheme' where the first three digits dialled were the first three letters of the exchange name followed by a four digit number on the particular exchange. The three initial digits were then 'translated' into the digits required to reach the particular required exchange then the four digits followed.

Prior to STD, only the dials in a Director area had letters on them, plus those in the adjacent Non-Director area exchanges for which the Director area was a local call. However shortly after the start of 'All Figure Numbering' in 1966, 'sectorisation' took place in Director areas where the geographic area was split up with the initial digit being the same as other adjacent exchanges in the same sector (see attached map for Manchester Director Area). More by luck some exchanges initial digit remained the same as that of the sector and hence they were able to keep their original three letter code i.e. CENtral was 236 and was in Sector 2. Then when AFN was completed around 1968/69, CENtral was listed as 061-236 joining all the other new AFN exchanges which never had 'letter' equivalents.
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Old 8th May 2020, 5:26 pm   #23
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Then the 4 digit "subscriber's" number - many of you will know the significance of 2211.
Doesn't 'ring a bell' with me - did you mean 1212?
It was sometimes used as the 'Fault Reporting' Telephone number in an exchange. On five/six digit exchanges it would have other digits prefixed.
There were 69 out of the 549 Group Switching Centre/Trunk Switching Centre phone numbers that ended in 2211 - just as many in 2111 and way more ending in just 111.

2190 for originally the standard for UAX7 and UAX14's. Also used for some four digit Non-Director GSCs.

UAX12 ad 13's used 290.
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Old 8th May 2020, 6:10 pm   #24
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

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Then the 4 digit "subscriber's" number - many of you will know the significance of 2211.
Doesn't 'ring a bell' with me - did you mean 1212?
Well explained by Pellseinydd lots of the local exchanges had 2211 as a 'special faults' number
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Old 8th May 2020, 6:39 pm   #25
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

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(see attached map for Manchester Director Area).
I can't see a map attached.
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Old 8th May 2020, 6:48 pm   #26
Pellseinydd
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(see attached map for Manchester Director Area).
I can't see a map attached.
Whoops, cat knocked it off! Good excuse
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Old 8th May 2020, 7:55 pm   #27
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

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was sometimes used as the 'Fault Reporting' Telephone number in an exchange. On five/six digit exchanges it would have other digits prefixed.
There were 69 out of the 549 Group Switching Centre/Trunk Switching Centre phone numbers that ended in 2211 - just as many in 2111 and way more ending in just 111.
I worked as an apprentice on various London exchanges in the early 80's and did periods of time on 'specials' 222, 839. 930 etc. The main problem was kids who cold pick up the receiver and play with the dial and called us, it was almost a daily occurrence.
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Old 8th May 2020, 8:27 pm   #28
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

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Whoops, cat knocked it off! Good excuse
Yup, beats "the dog ate my homework" into a cocked hat!
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Old 8th May 2020, 9:36 pm   #29
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

The code for Etwall 4-figure numbers always used to be given as 028 373. To reach Etwall from Burton-on-Trent (0283) you dialled 73, followed by the 4-figure Etwall number.

I guess the idea of the spacing was more to balance the grouping for visual appeal, rather than to indicate exactly the division into parent exchange, satellite exchange and local number.
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Old 8th May 2020, 10:49 pm   #30
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The code for Etwall 4-figure numbers always used to be given as 028 373. To reach Etwall from Burton-on-Trent (0283) you dialled 73, followed by the 4-figure Etwall number.

I guess the idea of the spacing was more to balance the grouping for visual appeal, rather than to indicate exactly the division into parent exchange, satellite exchange and local number.
Oooooh was it? !

See attached - camera must be doing odd things or I need new specs

Don't think it's the cats this time !
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Old 10th May 2020, 1:02 am   #31
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

It must have been around 1970 that the Etwall code as listed in dialling code booklets will have changed to being shown as 028 373 instead of 0283 73. From Burton on Trent you would have only needed to dial 73. However...it wasn't always this logical. In the 1980's Leeds and Harewood both had the code 0532. From Leeds to Harewood you would just dial the number, whereas from Harewood to Leeds you had to dial 9 followed by the Leeds number. Harewood was eventually change to Leeds numbers, in 1986 I think.
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Old 10th May 2020, 6:13 pm   #32
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

Yes, if you were in Burton-on-Trent then you dialled 73 for an Etwall 4-figure number. From Etwall, you had to dial 9 for a Burton number.

The only changes really, going from 4 to 6 figures, were that (1) anyone in Etwall had to remember to put 73 in front of any number in the village and omit the initial 9 from any local code starting with a 9, and (2) the 963 short code from Derby (Burton from Derby was 962, and the other Burton satellites were 962 7x, but Etwall used to have its own special short code from Derby) no longer worked. For anyone calling an Etwall number from anywhere else, the digits dialled were the same.

As for local dialling oddities, there were a few around my area. Derby to Ashbourne was 91, Burton to Derby was 93 but Burton to Ashbourne was just 939. I guess the inbound trunk dropped straight into the middle of a hunt group like that to prevent chaining of local codes. Absit omen someone in Etwall should get a call to Belper at local rate; even though they could dial all the way to Cannock in Staffordshire, some 50km away, at local rate!

The Harewood thing might have been charging-related (and subsequently found not to be worth bothering to charge the extra for), or it might have had something to do with numbers of trunk lines between exchanges.

@Pellseinydd -- nice find in the old dialling code books! The first one must have been around the very beginnings of STD, as letters did not seem to last long. The second one is different from the ones I remember, which had the figures grouped in threes; this was how I remembered them until PhONEday, after which codes for short local numbers were split after the "main exchange" code.
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Old 11th May 2020, 11:47 am   #33
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Default Re: The space in the STD codes

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Then the 4 digit "subscriber's" number - many of you will know the significance of 2211.
Doesn't 'ring a bell' with me - did you mean 1212?
It was sometimes used as the 'Fault Reporting' Telephone number in an exchange. On five/six digit exchanges it would have other digits prefixed.
There were 69 out of the 549 Group Switching Centre/Trunk Switching Centre phone numbers that ended in 2211 - just as many in 2111 and way more ending in just 111.

2190 for originally the standard for UAX7 and UAX14's. Also used for some four digit Non-Director GSCs.

UAX12 ad 13's used 290.
Ah, thanks for clarification. As the original mention of 2211 was in pip5678's post about director areas, I was thinking of Scotland Yard's WHI 1212.
The Special Faults phone in my GSC was 22221, and frequently received calls for the city's cop shop, which was 22222.
One day someone rang asking for PC Collins, so the phone was handed to an engineer whose name was Phil Collins, and happened to have the middle initial C.
Cue much confusion.
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Old 11th May 2020, 4:40 pm   #34
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Yes, if you were in Burton-on-Trent then you dialled 73 for an Etwall 4-figure number. From Etwall, you had to dial 9 for a Burton number.

The only changes really, going from 4 to 6 figures, were that (1) anyone in Etwall had to remember to put 73 in front of any number in the village and omit the initial 9 from any local code starting with a 9, and (2) the 963 short code from Derby (Burton from Derby was 962, and the other Burton satellites were 962 7x, but Etwall used to have its own special short code from Derby) no longer worked. For anyone calling an Etwall number from anywhere else, the digits dialled were the same.

As for local dialling oddities, there were a few around my area. Derby to Ashbourne was 91, Burton to Derby was 93 but Burton to Ashbourne was just 939. I guess the inbound trunk dropped straight into the middle of a hunt group like that to prevent chaining of local codes. Absit omen someone in Etwall should get a call to Belper at local rate; even though they could dial all the way to Cannock in Staffordshire, some 50km away, at local rate!

The Harewood thing might have been charging-related (and subsequently found not to be worth bothering to charge the extra for), or it might have had something to do with numbers of trunk lines between exchanges.
<snip>.
Just a small point - in telecoms, the term 'satellite' refers to an exchange in an LNS (Linked Numbering Scheme) where the other exchanges didn't dial a code to reach a particular exchange in the LNS. In an LNS there was normally an exchange designated as the 'main' exchange where the interlinking was originally done but things developed over the years. Hence Etwall did not become a satellite until around 1990 when it went digital and became part of the Burton-on-Trent LNS The subscribers became 'Burton-on-Trent' numbers by prefixing then with '73' the old code previously from the 'Main' exchange in the group of exchanges. This was possible with the relevant exchange having four digit numbers.

The smaller exchanges off a main' exchange were 'dependent' exchanges - mainly UAXs but larger ones could be Non-Director exchanges as in the case of Etwall.

You'd be surprised how things changed over the years. 'Burton-on-Trent' was originally a Linked Numbering Scheme including Tutbury and Swadlincote exchanges.

In those days they were both Non-Director exchanges - however in 1955 Tutbury was replaced by a UAX14 becoming 88 off Burton but moved back into the LNS when it became a K1 Crossbar satellite in the 0283 Linked Numbering Scheme.

Swadlincote (Non-Director) was later to become 87 off Burton (moving back to being a satellite in the 0283 LNS on 31st March 1976 as 'Burton-on-Trent numbers but still on 'Swadlincote' exchange which just became the 'engineering' name for the exchange.

A number of the exchanges in the Burton-on-Trent 0283 group had direct junctions to Derby Exchange - 0332 Group Switching Centre.
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Old 11th May 2020, 5:05 pm   #35
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@Pellseinydd -- nice find in the old dialling code books! The first one must have been around the very beginnings of STD, as letters did not seem to last long. The second one is different from the ones I remember, which had the figures grouped in threes; this was how I remembered them until PhONEday, after which codes for short local numbers were split after the "main exchange" code.
The format originally used for Etwall - OBU 373 - was used up until the end of 1966 from the introduction of STD in December 1958. Not that short

Then by March 1967 it was in the 'logical' format '0283 73'.

The change to 028 8373 seems to have come between January and March 1969 judging by the several hundred STD codebooks that I've got.

So was 028 8373 2190 a 'London' number ?
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Old 11th May 2020, 6:50 pm   #36
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So was 028 8373 2190 a 'London' number ?
I may have totally misunderstood the question, but when did London numbers start 028?

I thought they were:
1st 01
2nd 071/081
3rd 0171/0181
currently 020

... 028 now having moved across the water to Northern Ireland.
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Old 11th May 2020, 6:58 pm   #37
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<snip>
The Harewood thing might have been charging-related (and subsequently found not to be worth bothering to charge the extra for), or it might have had something to do with numbers of trunk lines between exchanges.
<snip.
Harewood was a small Unit Automatic eXchange No 13 - 167 lines in 1972 when its STD code was 0973 36. The 0973 XX group were on 8XX off Leeds Group Switching Centre. Thus Harewood was on level 836 off Leeds after about 1963 - previous it had been 826 off Leeds. However it also had another direct junction route rom Harrogate (0423) GSC where it was reached by dialling 930.

In 1975 Harewood was moved into the Leeds 'Linked Numbering Scheme' (STD code 0532) by prefixing the three digit UAX13 numbers with 886. Thus other exchanges in the 0532 group just dialled 886XXX and STD callers dialled 0532 886XXX. However the junctions to Harrogate would not be accessible as the code to Harrogate from Harewood might have 'clashed' with other codes within the 0532 LNS or would not be sufficient to carry all the traffic from the Leeds LNS so 'Harewood' was kept partially out of the LNS by having 'Harewood' subs dial the '9' to reach other exchanges in the LNS. However by 1988, Harewood is listed as a UAX13S - the 'satellite' version of the UAX13 Which looked at the initial two digits of those dialled and routed to the rest of the UAX13 for local calls and dropped the junction to the main exchange (Leeds 'main') otherwise it dropped the local exchange side out as all the digits had been pulsed out to Leeds. There would have been no need for the '9' at this time. Then on 15 March 1988, it went 'digital' with a System X concentrator and the 'subscribers' became 'Leeds' numbers - fully within the Linked Numbering Scheme.

The 'Harwewood' setup was not unique. Deeside exchange in the 0244 Chester Charge Group was originally Connah's Quay Non-Director was originally 0244 51 (level 51 off Chester). 'Deeside' was originally a mobile exchange on level 86 off Chester. Both dialled 9 to reach the GSC 'Chester/a' main exchange. There were at the time other exchanges in the 0244 Chester LNS. However when Connah's Quay, Deeside and another mobile Estuary on 69 off Chester were moved into the LNS now to be known as 'Deeside', they were in a separate group which needed to dial a 9 to reach Chester . This was because Connah's Quay had direct junctions to exchanges in adjacent charge such as Mold (0352) on level 85. The code could have clashed with other codes off Chester which was getting short of codes. Where I live with a Mold phone number I could dial either 91 or 95 to reach Deeside - 91 took me via Chester/A main exchange and the 95 took me over the direct junctions from Mold to 'Deeside'
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Old 13th May 2020, 5:05 am   #38
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Thanks Pellseinydd for that comprehensive information about Harewood exchange!

In the Leeds telephone area where I used to live, Wakefield had the STD code 0924 and was obtained by dialling 97 from Leeds. Some other exchanges such as Dewsbury and Batley were also 0924, but were obtained by the single-digit code 9 from Leeds: these numbers began with 4 so the equipment would have recognised it as a Dewsbury or Batley number, rather than a Wakefield number, as soon as you dialled 94.

One day I wondered what would happen if you dialled 97 for Dewsbury instead of 9. I had occasion to ring a Dewsbury number and tried this, it worked and would have been charged the same, but was rather a pointless exercise as all I had done was dialled one more digit than necessary!

The Post Office often included a caveat in their Dialling Code Booklets: "Only codes which are authorised for use from the telephone you are using may be dialled". I reckon there were many cases where you could reach a local exchange using any of several different, though unauthorised, codes. This is all gone nowadays, everybody uses the national area codes.
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Old 13th May 2020, 9:46 am   #39
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The Post Office often included a caveat in their Dialling Code Booklets: "Only codes which are authorised for use from the telephone you are using may be dialled". I reckon there were many cases where you could reach a local exchange using any of several different, though unauthorised, codes.
There were reports of people chaining multiple local codes and working their way across the country, for the price of a local call.

I remember in the public phonebox having to hold my finger under the Dialling Code on the board whilst mother dialled it slowly, then dialled the subscriber number. No point in writing the Dialling Code in the address book, as they varied depending on from where one was calling. We'd saved up twopences for the phone, and felt rather swizzed when they changed the phones to 5p.
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Old 13th May 2020, 9:57 am   #40
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There were reports of people chaining multiple local codes and working their way across the country, for the price of a local call.
As I understand it, the trade-off was that the signal got weaker the more links you made, as the amplification used for long-distance calls was not employed for local calls.
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