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Old 15th Aug 2016, 10:04 am   #1
Iannacconeg
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Angry Candlestick 150 problems

Hi
I bought a candlestick phone and bellset recently. The wiring on the bellset was not complete, it was a bell 1A not a bellset 1A (buyer beware). When I looked inside the candlestick I found a GPO diagram that showed the candlestick and a bell 1A. Yet all the available websites say not to use a bell 1A as a bellset 1. On advice I connected the bell to my phone line and it works! Then I wired my candlestick and rang "123" to check- I heard a faint voice say "hello" I thought it was a BT engineer but then he said "fire ambulance or..." I hung up immediately.
I am now to scared to try again
If pictures I need let me know. It is a Plessey from 1930 with a 2 next to 150

Last edited by paulsherwin; 15th Aug 2016 at 10:20 am. Reason: to comply with forum rules
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Old 15th Aug 2016, 9:46 pm   #2
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

A bell 1A is just that - a bell and nothing more. Some vendors create confusion by referring to it as a bellset 1A, though the latter refers to a unit containing other components (and, confusingly, not necessarily a bell.

The 150 does indeed need a bellset such as bellset 1 (without an "A"), which contains an induction coil (and a capacitor). The former is necessary for correct wiring of the 150.

You do not say how you wired your 150, but I'm puzzled how you managed to get through to the emergency number (999), which you imply with your mention of "fire, amulance or ...". It is more likely that you achieved something like 112, which is one of the non-emergency services (probably owing to the "2" and "3" each missing a pulse by the dial speed being out).

It is possible to wire a 150 with the transmitter and receiver (and dial contacts) simply in series across the line and get some sort of communication, but there will be a mismatch of impedance (hence the faintness of the sound) and a DC line current through the receiver - for which it is not designed.

As a matter of interest, how did you connect the bell? It should work if you connect it between terminals 3 and 5 of a master socket or equivalent (usually the white and blue wires of a standard BT line cord). Owing to its bell impedance of 1K, it may load the line to the extent of preventing other ringers from operating - often circumvented by connecting a 3K3 resistor in series with the 1K bell. It does, however, require a series capacitor, as provided by the master socket between terminals 2 and 3.
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Old 18th Aug 2016, 5:35 pm   #3
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

As usual Dave is 100% right, but you have a nice bell, and a nice phone, it is several ways around the problem of DC trough the receiver, and even to get better impedance matching.
For me living outside UK the adaptions usually goes from UK to Norwegian systems. The process is known. Since this phone is an ASTIC it is only 3 wires from the phone to the subset. To make it extremely simple, but working you could look at this picture: http://www.bayern-online.com/Ebook/3...s/fig314_t.png (look at the part of the circuit named Station A)

The capacitor will be OK from 1-5 microFarad, the coil shoud hav many windings, and resistance less than 100 ohms. Typical 24 car light relay, you just have to test whatever you have. In worst case a 220 ohms resistor may do the job.

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Old 18th Aug 2016, 7:17 pm   #4
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

You will find my exploits converting a Bell 1A to a Bellset using an induction coil from an early 700 series phone here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=119966

The induction coil is largely to cancel out the sound from the microphone which would otherwise be heard on the earpiece. The main problem with these old phones is the carbon microphones which are pretty useless.

Does your dial need servicing? It is important that the contacts are clean and the timing is correct.
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Old 23rd Aug 2016, 4:25 pm   #5
Iannacconeg
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

Hi all.

Dave Moll is correct regarding wiring the bell. I get the 112 dialled instead of 123. When I get a moment I will post some images of the phone as I gather that, if correctly wired, it can work on a modern network
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Old 7th May 2020, 9:42 pm   #6
Iannacconeg
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Default Fault dialling on a no 150 candlestick telephone

I bought the phone a few years ago.
After some tinkering I dialled 123 to check the phone worked,.
To my shock and horror I got the reply "Which emergency service do you require..."
I hung up the phone immediately.
I assume it may have dialled 112 but I don,t have the means to check what happened.
I went to dismantle it following Sam Hallas and agree with him that the neck cords is a rat`s nest and poorly designed.
No idea how to find the fault
Advice needed
Gee?
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Old 8th May 2020, 4:26 pm   #7
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

If you just connect the phone to the microphone inlet on your computer, and not the line you may make a recording in Audacity. Then it is possible to analyze the signal if you are dialing. I use to just record 0 and look at that.
Here is how I learned it: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/f...5673#msg175673

Another option is to have a serial port, an RS232 and some fre software and it is much more easy to test. http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/f...?topic=21454.0

dsk
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Old 8th May 2020, 5:32 pm   #8
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
<snip>
You do not say how you wired your 150, but I'm puzzled how you managed to get through to the emergency number (999), which you imply with your mention of "fire, amulance or ...". It is more likely that you achieved something like 112, which is one of the non-emergency services (probably owing to the "2" and "3" each missing a pulse by the dial speed being out).
112 is the European equivalent of our 999 having been introduced in the UK in the early 1990's and connects you through to the same 999 service.
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Old 9th May 2020, 2:57 am   #9
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

Been there, done that - accidentally dialled 112/999 whilst working on a phone.

The thing to remember is don't just hang up, this is one occasion where the caller can't clear down the call, and the call is usually connected the instant the third digit is dialled.
Speak to the operator and explain what happened. Nothing bad will happen to you.

They have a procedure for silent calls called "Silent Solution" and you don't want to trigger that.

Obviously 999/112 is not a good test number
but neither is 123. I remember when it was TIM and you got the time of day free of charge, these days it costs something like 40p a go, and I don't think it's included in call packages.
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Old 9th May 2020, 8:39 am   #10
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Obviously 999/112 is not a good test number
but neither is 123. I remember when it was TIM and you got the time of day free of charge, these days it costs something like 40p a go, and I don't think it's included in call packages.
Yes, I found out about the cost of 123 the hard way a few years ago.

Nowadays, all my telephone testing is done behind the safety of my house PABX, so I have to make an explicit decision even to select an outside line of any sort.
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Old 9th May 2020, 11:02 am   #11
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
<snip>

Obviously 999/112 is not a good test number
but neither is 123. I remember when it was TIM and you got the time of day free of charge, these days it costs something like 40p a go, and I don't think it's included in call packages.
When was the Speaking Clock free to call?

During my GPO days in the 1950's until it became the PO in 1969, it was always chargeable.

See attached from the Manchester Directories over the years from before the days of TIM where it was charged as a local call even if you just asked the operator for the time until the end of TIM after which it became 123 by 1967 .
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Old 9th May 2020, 11:07 am   #12
Pellseinydd
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moll View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
Obviously 999/112 is not a good test number
but neither is 123. I remember when it was TIM and you got the time of day free of charge, these days it costs something like 40p a go, and I don't think it's included in call packages.
Yes, I found out about the cost of 123 the hard way a few years ago.

Nowadays, all my telephone testing is done behind the safety of my house PABX, so I have to make an explicit decision even to select an outside line of any sort.
Or if you've not got a PABX, get a line off CNet where all calls are free and if you dial 999 by accident, you only get a vintage 1930's BBC recording about the introduction of the 999 service! Just ask if you are not sure how to get a line.
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Old 9th May 2020, 11:08 am   #13
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Default Re: Candlestick 150 problems

Can we get back to discussing the problem with the OP's phone please.
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