Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player - Page 2 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

flyingtech55 · 8th May 2021, 6:37 pm

Pictures of record player 1 of 3.

flyingtech55 · 8th May 2021, 6:40 pm

Pictures of record player 2 of 3.

flyingtech55 · 8th May 2021, 6:41 pm

Pictures of record player 3 of 3.

john600601 · 8th May 2021, 7:31 pm

Thanks for sharing the photos, OP - I've sent you a PM.

flyingtech55 · 8th May 2021, 7:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by vidjoman

I think a TC8 was a crystal cartridge not a ceramic as shown in the spec. Suggests that the details are suspicious.

4V does seem an extraordinarily high output for a record player cartridge especially as it's supposed to match into a load impedance of 47K according to the information on the website. I think that information is a bit suspect to say the least.

TimR

julie_m · 8th May 2021, 8:39 pm

The problem with modifying the HF22 is, by the time you're done with it, it won't really be a HF22 anymore. You will probably need to modify the tonearm to fit a stereo-friendly cartridge, which in turn probably will require a preamplifier. And then the result might still not be very good; a decent input signal from a good cartridge or a Bluetooth receiver probably will expose the weaknesses of the speaker, which was never going to be expected to handle those bottom and top notes in the first place. You could fit a modern amplifier and full-range speaker, but by now you are well and truly sweeping the decks of the Ship of Theseus with Trigger's Broom.

It's almost better off left the way it was made, as a static exhibit rather than an everyday working piece. Certainly the right collector will pay more for it in that state. A bit sad, but the world has moved on .....

flyingtech55 · 9th May 2021, 12:19 am

To be fair, I was just going to fit a Bluetooth module to cash in on the current fad for 're-purposing' everything regardless of the practicality. However, I agree with the jist of what you say and knowing me, rather than sweeping the decks of the Ship of Theseus I'd have probably ended up clinging desperately to the wreckage having driven the poor vessel onto the rocks of misplaced enthusiasm.

As you suggest, a collector who wants it for itself, for its place in history, and as a product of its time will be the ideal custodian.

I thank you all for your thoughts and opinions so freely and generously given.

TimR

Edward Huggins · 9th May 2021, 9:36 am

This Thread seems to have reached a satisfactory conclusion. I would just like to add that just about every aspect of the so-called "Specification" of the BSR TC8H as shown under #17 is incorrect and potentially misleading.

Station X · 9th May 2021, 10:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

I would just like to add that just about every aspect of the so-called "Specification" of the BSR TC8H as shown under #17 is incorrect and potentially misleading.

That being the case why not post the correct specification for the benefit of members rather than criticising another forum member's efforts?

Herald1360 · 9th May 2021, 10:01 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingtech55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

The output will not have been as high as this. The standard measured maximum output of the BSR TC8H/2 was 1.2Volts and the BSR TC8H/1 at 900mV. On certain transients it might have measured slightly higher.

This is the info I got from the website:

https://www.adelcom.net/BSR%20Cartridges.htm

TC8H
TC-8-H TC-8H TC8-H tc8h tc-8-h tc-8h tc8-h
Monaural Ceramic Piezo

Cartridge Type: Ceramic Piezo.
Stylus Shape: Conical.
Stylus Type: Conical 1.0 mil. Diamond for LP & 3.0 mil. Sapphire for RPM. (Flip-Over)
Frequency Response: 20 Hz. - 20 kHz.
Output Voltage: 4.0 V at 1 kHz, 5 cm/sec.
Vertical Tracking Force Range (Grams): 10.0 grams - 12.0 grams.
Recommended Load Impedance: 47,000 Ohms.
Number of Terminals: 2.
Replacement Stylus: N8-7S & N8-7D.
OEM Part Numbers: BSR TC8G, TC8R & TC8S.

It does seem very high and may of course be a misprint or just simply wrong. I'd have thought somewhere between 1V and 1.5V (as you suggest) would have been more reasonable.

TimR

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...33&postcount=3

Is a more likely spec

Edit: How serendipitous was that post cross?

toshiba tony · 9th May 2021, 10:41 am

I had one of these awful things, how could we trust them with our records! It was so boring I put a neon in it, wired across the primary of the output transformer, (my own sound to light unit) it was almost embarrasing carrying it round. I'm not knocking yours in any way by the way. Happy days, 60s, 70s, bring 'em back.

Edward Huggins · 9th May 2021, 12:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

I would just like to add that just about every aspect of the so-called "Specification" of the BSR TC8H as shown under #17 is incorrect and potentially misleading.

That being the case why not post the correct specification for the benefit of members rather than criticising another forum member's efforts?

My thanks to Graham for this prompt. The much-maligned crystal element BSR TC8H was produced from late 1957 to 1964, the very "powerhouse" behind just so many and varied budget record players with their ubiquitous EL84/UL84 amplifiers. There were two versions, the BSR TC8H/1 in the familiar Orange moulding which gave an output of 800mv@1.2cm/s - and the much rarer TC8H/2 which gave 1.1V@1.2CM/s. I believe this version came in a White/Cream moulding, rather similar in colour ro the BSR TC8S Stereo cartridge. I've never encountered one of these in over 65 years of my faffing about with record players There was also a Black bodied clone produced in Japan and many of these were sold in the US. Today, the TC8H is available brand new as a re-manufacturered "H TC8". It is possible to fit a BSR TC8S stylus to these, but the inherent poor compliance of both the cartridge per se and the metal stylus shank makes this rather, er, pointless. The tracking weight of all these was usually quoted a 6-9 grams. On the TC8H, the treble response dropped off rather sharply at c.8,000 c.p.s - but even so, was far better than a 1960s AM radio could give. That's it for now Folks!

Herald1360 · 9th May 2021, 2:58 pm

Just noticed..... 4V@5cm/sec in the "dodgy" spec isn't far off the ~1V@1.2cm/sec in the mfr's spec. The 47k load is way off though. Someone had their "magnetic" hat on, perhaps?

flyingtech55 · 10th May 2021, 6:33 pm

Thank you Edward and Graham for this supplementary information. These older cartridges certainly generated quite a signal which I suppose they had to, to be able to drive an EL84 or UL84 directly. However I guess you paid the price in terms of tracking weight and lack of compliance. The amplifier was certainly very simple and minimalist.

On reflection, I should probably have been less trusting of the information in the website and not taken it at face value.

TimR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station X

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

I would just like to add that just about every aspect of the so-called "Specification" of the BSR TC8H as shown under #17 is incorrect and potentially misleading.

That being the case why not post the correct specification for the benefit of members rather than criticising another forum member's efforts?

My thanks to Graham for this prompt. The much-maligned crystal element BSR TC8H was produced from late 1957 to 1964, the very "powerhouse" behind just so many and varied budget record players with their ubiquitous EL84/UL84 amplifiers. There were two versions, the BSR TC8H/1 in the familiar Orange moulding which gave an output of 800mv@1.2cm/s - and the much rarer TC8H/2 which gave 1.1V@1.2CM/s. I believe this version came in a White/Cream moulding, rather similar in colour ro the BSR TC8S Stereo cartridge. I've never encountered one of these in over 65 years of my faffing about with record players There was also a Black bodied clone produced in Japan and many of these were sold in the US. Today, the TC8H is available brand new as a re-manufacturered "H TC8". It is possible to fit a BSR TC8S stylus to these, but the inherent poor compliance of both the cartridge per se and the metal stylus shank makes this rather, er, pointless. The tracking weight of all these was usually quoted a 6-9 grams. On the TC8H, the treble response dropped off rather sharply at c.8,000 c.p.s - but even so, was far better than a 1960s AM radio could give. That's it for now Folks!

flyingtech55 · 10th May 2021, 7:19 pm

Hi Tony

I know what you're saying, but they were what they were, they were pretty affordable and they gave youngsters a record player to play their 'pop music' on without using their parents Hacker Gondolier or Pye Black Box (insert other quality, heavy and expensive models of your choice). They sold in their thousands and provided good service to their young owners.

Best regards

TimR

Quote:

Originally Posted by toshiba tony

I had one of these awful things, how could we trust them with our records! It was so boring I put a neon in it, wired across the primary of the output transformer, (my own sound to light unit) it was almost embarrasing carrying it round. I'm not knocking yours in any way by the way. Happy days, 60s, 70s, bring 'em back.

Edward Huggins · 10th May 2021, 7:50 pm

On a point of detail, you describe your HF22 as a "Suitacase" record player. The models like yours were actually described as "Vanity Case" players to differentiate them and because they looked like, er, Vanity Cases - and so sold very well to Teenage Girls. They were very light to carry and just looked the part.

flyingtech55 · 10th May 2021, 10:54 pm

Edward

You are of course quite correct...my mistake. I don't really know much about either Vanity Cases or teenaged girls. However, I believe the particular Fidelity record player which is the subject of this topic was in fact originally owned by a teenaged girl back in the sixties.

TimR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

On a point of detail, you describe your HF22 as a "Suitacase" record player. The models like yours were actually described as "Vanity Case" players to differentiate them and because they looked like, er, Vanity Cases - and so sold very well to Teenage Girls. They were very light to carry and just looked the part.

8th May 2021, 6:37 pm	#21
flyingtech55 Octode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 1,096	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player Pictures of record player 1 of 3. Attached Thumbnails __________________ All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

8th May 2021, 6:40 pm	#22
flyingtech55 Octode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 1,096	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player Pictures of record player 2 of 3. Attached Thumbnails __________________ All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

8th May 2021, 6:41 pm	#23
flyingtech55 Octode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 1,096	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player Pictures of record player 3 of 3. Attached Thumbnails __________________ All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

8th May 2021, 7:31 pm	#24
john600601 Pentode Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Craven Arms, Shropshire Posts: 111	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player Thanks for sharing the photos, OP - I've sent you a PM.

8th May 2021, 8:39 pm	#26
julie_m Dekatron Join Date: May 2008 Location: Derby, UK. Posts: 7,735	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player The problem with modifying the HF22 is, by the time you're done with it, it won't really be a HF22 anymore. You will probably need to modify the tonearm to fit a stereo-friendly cartridge, which in turn probably will require a preamplifier. And then the result might still not be very good; a decent input signal from a good cartridge or a Bluetooth receiver probably will expose the weaknesses of the speaker, which was never going to be expected to handle those bottom and top notes in the first place. You could fit a modern amplifier and full-range speaker, but by now you are well and truly sweeping the decks of the Ship of Theseus with Trigger's Broom. It's almost better off left the way it was made, as a static exhibit rather than an everyday working piece. Certainly the right collector will pay more for it in that state. A bit sad, but the world has moved on ..... __________________ If I have seen further than others, it is because I was standing on a pile of failed experiments.

9th May 2021, 12:19 am	#27
flyingtech55 Octode Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ayrshire, UK. Posts: 1,096	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player To be fair, I was just going to fit a Bluetooth module to cash in on the current fad for 're-purposing' everything regardless of the practicality. However, I agree with the jist of what you say and knowing me, rather than sweeping the decks of the Ship of Theseus I'd have probably ended up clinging desperately to the wreckage having driven the poor vessel onto the rocks of misplaced enthusiasm. As you suggest, a collector who wants it for itself, for its place in history, and as a product of its time will be the ideal custodian. I thank you all for your thoughts and opinions so freely and generously given. TimR __________________ All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.

9th May 2021, 9:36 am	#28
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player This Thread seems to have reached a satisfactory conclusion. I would just like to add that just about every aspect of the so-called "Specification" of the BSR TC8H as shown under #17 is incorrect and potentially misleading. __________________ Edward.

9th May 2021, 10:41 am	#31
toshiba tony Heptode Join Date: May 2006 Location: Accrington, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 978	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player I had one of these awful things, how could we trust them with our records! It was so boring I put a neon in it, wired across the primary of the output transformer, (my own sound to light unit) it was almost embarrasing carrying it round. I'm not knocking yours in any way by the way. Happy days, 60s, 70s, bring 'em back.

9th May 2021, 2:58 pm	#33
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player Just noticed..... 4V@5cm/sec in the "dodgy" spec isn't far off the ~1V@1.2cm/sec in the mfr's spec. The 47k load is way off though. Someone had their "magnetic" hat on, perhaps? __________________ ....__________ ....\|____\|\|__\|__\_____ .=.\| _---\__\|__\|_---_\|. .........O..Chris....O

10th May 2021, 7:50 pm	#36
Edward Huggins Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Southwold, Suffolk, UK. Posts: 8,328	Re: Fidelity HF22 Suitcase Record Player On a point of detail, you describe your HF22 as a "Suitacase" record player. The models like yours were actually described as "Vanity Case" players to differentiate them and because they looked like, er, Vanity Cases - and so sold very well to Teenage Girls. They were very light to carry and just looked the part. __________________ Edward.