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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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15th Apr 2021, 6:23 pm | #1 |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 196
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Sobell 23" Dual Standard
Hello all.
This fantastic looking set was one of the many sets harvested from a loft in Scarborough back in January 2015 by myself and Rich. Unfortunately the one and only model identification label is missing so I don't have the model number. I decided it was time to get it down from the shelf and see what state it was in. This quickly turned to disappointment when I saw the tuner cables, mains and speaker cables all either disconnected or snipped! Wires from the tube base and also the aquadag have all seen the sharp end of a pair of cutters too. The rest of the set looks untouched and the tuners both appear to be the originals. Can't think why someone would do that unless they've been swapped in an identical set. I have a GEC equivalent set here so it shouldn't be too bad to connect everything back up again. All wire colours are the same in both sets. Need to make some room to put the sets side by side and get everything connected. Then see what happens! In the meantime I think I'll do what Mr Squirrel is doing and have some tea. I'll return to the Sobell later. |
15th Apr 2021, 7:59 pm | #2 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
The model no. is Sobell 1023. Should be easy to get going.T.
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15th Apr 2021, 8:26 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 9,145
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
Incredibly I've just overhauled one of these.
As R73 mentions, easy to restore and give a cracking picture. It is difficult to clean the VHF tuner contacts but I have done a write up that may help. I won't post it till you have made some progress with yours. I don't want to spoil your fun! The very best of luck with it. John. |
15th Apr 2021, 8:56 pm | #4 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 9,425
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
I am quite sure this was the chassis I took my RTEB practical exam on in the 60’s. 4 faults to find and fix, I found it easy to work on and had not seen one before.
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Frank |
15th Apr 2021, 8:58 pm | #5 |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 196
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
Cheers John. Thanks for that. What a coincidence and a rare set aswell.
Particularly looking forward to this one as it's a model I remember well. Thanks too to R73 regarding model number. Have now found the correct service manual. Cheers, Mick. |
15th Apr 2021, 9:05 pm | #6 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,882
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
That brings back memories - that was the first second-hand set I repaired and sold to a schoolfriend! Even then it looked unusual being a 'woodie'. Great pictures and very sensitive.
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15th Apr 2021, 10:52 pm | #7 |
Heptode
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newport, Gwent, UK.
Posts: 961
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
I had a 19" version of this which worked ok. but i still have the 23" GEC set that i've rewired the mains input so neutral now goes to chassis and live goes to the new dropper which i'd installed and up came a lovely picture .
Cheers Neil. |
16th Apr 2021, 7:44 pm | #8 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 1,397
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
Another 23" Sobell here! Model number label missing from back cover as per all GEC group sets of this period.....
This one has certainly been around the block a few times: The worst bodgery being the messy drilling of the front panel to accept a separate on/off switch as the original concentric one had failed o/c. To make life more interesting, the replacement rotary switch works backwards, clockwise is off, anti-clockwise is on. That caused some confusion when first applying power. The system switch has been soldered up for 625 only operation and the operating rod from the cam on the back of the VHF tuner discarded. There are various choc-block connections around the dropper and the LOPT shield is missing. I think the original crt would have had a feinbridge guard, the current one is a later replacement. Despite all this it does power up and produce an unlocked picture so there is hope. I'd like to undo the 625-only conversion and re-instate full dual standard operation. Some of these sets (like mine) have full 13 position VHF tuners, whereas others have 5 position versions marked simply BBC and ITA. Good luck with your excellent set Mick, I'll follow progress with great interest! Steve |
16th Apr 2021, 8:15 pm | #9 |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 196
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
That's a great looking set you have there Steve. I don't remember that model.
Mine has been a bit of a trial today. I keep finding more single ended plugs disconnected as I go through the set! Think I've got them all now, though. Anyway, after replacing a dropper section (about 188 ohm I think) I finally have heaters and that "warm glow". Very small spark from the line output bottles and obviously the boost is very low. A new PY800 and PL504 have made little difference so I'll carry on tomorrow. The LOPT looks like it's in good condition. Let's hope it's ok! |
16th Apr 2021, 8:55 pm | #10 |
Heptode
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newport, Gwent, UK.
Posts: 961
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
Do you have a full dropper Mick?. if not i have a few that i'll not use and your welcome to one if it helps.
Cheers Neil. |
17th Apr 2021, 5:33 pm | #11 |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 196
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
Hello Neil.
I might just take you up on that thanks. The dropper has two sections blodgered onto the original. Bit of a Christmas tree by half! Just about to venture into workshop for the first time today. I'll post some more pics later, hopefully. |
17th Apr 2021, 7:17 pm | #12 |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 196
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
A bit of headway!
The low EHT I reported yesterday was simply due to the system switch being stuck midway. There is a grommet missing from the bracket to hold the rod in place from the tuner. I'll worry about that later. At least it's not a problem and the system switch itself is in good fettle. With the EHT up there was still no raster. Boost HT to the tube (A1) was 25v! This is derived from R136 (820K) under the LOPT. There was 800v one side and 25v on the other. I quickly strapped an 820K across it from underneath (slap wrist!) and up came the raster. Difficult to say at this stage about the tube condition but I'm confident it's not too bad. Next workshop visit should be Monday. I'll need to sort the sound stage as there's not a peep from the audio. Probably something to do with the bunch of resistors around the EH90 and PCL84. A common trait of GEC's. If Neil's reading this I'll definitely take up the offer of a dropper. As you can see, this one has seen better days! Be in touch. All the best for now, Mick. |
17th Apr 2021, 7:39 pm | #13 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Evesham, Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 1,415
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
That dropper looks like the last repair of the day on a Friday night for some poor underpaid overworked outside service guy, just get it going any old how and home for tea, seen a few of those in my time.
Greg.
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Picture, sound?, DOOR. |
17th Apr 2021, 8:00 pm | #14 |
Heptode
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Newport, Gwent, UK.
Posts: 961
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
My dropper was worse with 4 resistors hanging off it and they were not even soldered. so it was the luck of the draw when switched on if it would actually work.
Cheers Neil. |
17th Apr 2021, 8:21 pm | #15 |
Octode
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 1,897
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
Looking good Mick! You put me to shame. The blue front GEC that I got at the same time has sat around ever since, it dawned on me that I have never even had the back off! I think it was 2014 when we got the sets, it was before I got married so pre May ... Time flies
I thought I had better have a look! I had bought a dropper when someone had some on ebay I decided it would probably be best to get one while I could.. Good job I did the one in my set is unravelling ! I found one bonus though, I have a model number label inside ! along with lots of dust... I will follow your restoration with interest. Rich. |
17th Apr 2021, 8:23 pm | #16 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 3,737
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
I too remember these new , at least the dropper is in a position where it gets a good air flow ,and won't burn the printed cct . Mick.
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17th Apr 2021, 8:52 pm | #17 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Surbiton, SW London, UK.
Posts: 2,801
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
It is a mystery why the blue (live) wire from the on/off switch is the only one on the
dropper without heat resistant sleeving. One of those goes down to the tag strip with the mains filter cap. That is where the blue wire should be soldered. I doubt many engineers used the correct 40/60 solder for soldering droppers ! |
20th Apr 2021, 1:17 pm | #18 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,882
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
A local rental shop had a load of these blue-fronts stacked up in an outside shed which i could have for 50p each. However my interest soon fell away when I found all the CRTs had been necked.
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20th Apr 2021, 5:41 pm | #19 |
Pentode
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 196
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
A few jobs later and things are looking up. I needed a helping hand from a bucket of good luck but for once things went my way.
The no sound was simply the speaker wires which had been cut and then literally tied and knotted together. I found yet another yellow lead which had been pulled and was sitting under the chassis. This was a tuner supply and as soon as it was connected I got signals up. Both standards were poor. The 625 tuner was practically seized and the fine tuning threads inside the 405 tuner were also seized. This is where the bucket of good luck came in handy. Both tuner repairs went to plan (extraordinary for me!) and the set is now working well on both standards. Tube is excellent. Just the usuals now which I'll report on once finished. Things like one ended frame hold, line speed a bit erratic between standards etc. So over to you John, let's hear about yours. Cheers, Mick. |
20th Apr 2021, 8:45 pm | #20 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 1,397
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Re: Sobell 23" Dual Standard
Looking very good indeed there Mick. I wonder what someone had in mind when they cut all those wires. The mind boggles...
Steve |