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Old 9th Jan 2022, 6:45 am   #1
hayerjoe
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Default When is a BSR not a BSR?

Hello all

I bought a BSR deck today for a tenner. Looked like a late model and I thought perhaps it would be belt drive as I'd never serviced a BSR belt drive deck

Got it home, tried to take the platter off, not the normal BSR circlip but just an o-ring, ok strange but it works well. With the platter off all looked very weird (see photo). I took the deck out and it looked even less familiar underneath, saw a label marked 'Glenburn', must be the music centre manufacturer rebranding the decks I thought, but no Glenburn WERE the manufacturer of the deck. I'd never heard of them before but maybe I've seen lots of them thinking they were just BSRs

Here's the story about Glenburn, and it is a good one, I see a quirky British movie in this especially the poaching of staff! enjoy

cheers Joe

"In the late 1960s, Dr. Daniel McDonald, the founder of Birmingham Sound Reproducers (aka BSR) was removed from the board of his own company (apparently, deemed too old). Around 1970, he retired to Geneva and sold much of his shares in the business, essentially severing his ties with BSR.

In 1971, he decided to get back in business, and founded Glenburn Engineering, to directly compete with his former company, and set up premises in East Kilbride and Wollaston, and attracted many BSR workers to join him.

Glenburn changers, while primarily marketed towards low-end stereos, also had models with magnetic cartridges, and sold standalone changers. These used the same mounting holes as BSR changers.

Around 1975, BSR finally convinced McDonald to return to BSR, seeing how successful Glenburn was. This led to BSR acquiring Glenburn, which sold the last AT-100/AT-105 and AT-110 record changers while supplies lasted. Eventually, these were redesigned as the BSR C180 and C181, respectively"
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 12:15 pm   #2
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Interesting, thanks.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 1:09 pm   #3
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Thanks for posting.
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 6:00 pm   #4
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayerjoe View Post
Hello all

I bought a BSR deck today for a tenner. Looked like a late model and I thought perhaps it would be belt drive as I'd never serviced a BSR belt drive deck

Got it home, tried to take the platter off, not the normal BSR circlip but just an o-ring, ok strange but it works well. With the platter off all looked very weird (see photo). I took the deck out and it looked even less familiar underneath, saw a label marked 'Glenburn', must be the music centre manufacturer rebranding the decks I thought, but no Glenburn WERE the manufacturer of the deck. I'd never heard of them before but maybe I've seen lots of them thinking they were just BSRs

Here's the story about Glenburn, and it is a good one, I see a quirky British movie in this especially the poaching of staff! enjoy

cheers Joe

"In the late 1960s, Dr. Daniel McDonald, the founder of Birmingham Sound Reproducers (aka BSR) was removed from the board of his own company (apparently, deemed too old). Around 1970, he retired to Geneva and sold much of his shares in the business, essentially severing his ties with BSR.

In 1971, he decided to get back in business, and founded Glenburn Engineering, to directly compete with his former company, and set up premises in East Kilbride and Wollaston, and attracted many BSR workers to join him.

Glenburn changers, while primarily marketed towards low-end stereos, also had models with magnetic cartridges, and sold standalone changers. These used the same mounting holes as BSR changers.

Around 1975, BSR finally convinced McDonald to return to BSR, seeing how successful Glenburn was. This led to BSR acquiring Glenburn, which sold the last AT-100/AT-105 and AT-110 record changers while supplies lasted. Eventually, these were redesigned as the BSR C180 and C181, respectively"
I was going to inquire about the Glenburn changer. I removed it from an inexpensive compact stereo. It works alright for as often as I play a record.
I always thought BSR products were good value for the price.
Dave, USradcoll1
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 8:33 pm   #5
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

I have always been under the impression that BSR stood for better sound reproduction .The deck in my Bush RP 50 even has it printed on it
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Old 9th Jan 2022, 8:50 pm   #6
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

That was a later invention from the marketing dept
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Old 16th Jan 2022, 10:38 pm   #7
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Love it would make a good film.
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Old 17th Jan 2022, 1:06 am   #8
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

I have one of those AT100s, still after a spindle for it.

There was a post here in 2017 showing the BSR-badged version, the mechanics of each are very different, despite the two being virtually identical seen from the top.

The Glenburn seemed to use the curious orange plastic rods and alloy centre cam/bearing assembly. The BSR one was, well, pretty much the same below deck as the C- series changers.
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Old 17th Jan 2022, 3:43 pm   #9
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirstyd View Post
I have always been under the impression that BSR stood for better sound reproduction .The deck in my Bush RP 50 even has it printed on it
Originally it was "Birmingham Sound Reproducers", but it was changed to "Better Sound Reproducers" mainly because it used the same letters "BSR" which was, by then, well established; but it also gave the company & name a more up market international appeal and became market leaders in mass produced record auto-changers.

When I worked in a Factory back in the 1970's, that made record-players, music centres etc., most of which used "BSR" record decks; I would often be called upon to get a deck working properly. I used to love working on BSR auto-changers, they had well designed, totally anti-jamming, extremely reliable mechanism's. But due to extremely high volume production of the decks at the BSR Factory, they weren't always assembled and set-up to the highest standards. I would say that the only minor weak spot in the whole design, was the tiny ball-bearing under the 'Actuating Slide' would occasionally be missing, (presumably, dropped out during transit) but even that was quite rare.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 11:47 pm   #10
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben View Post
I have one of those AT100s, still after a spindle for it.

There was a post here in 2017 showing the BSR-badged version, the mechanics of each are very different, despite the two being virtually identical seen from the top.

The Glenburn seemed to use the curious orange plastic rods and alloy centre cam/bearing assembly. The BSR one was, well, pretty much the same below deck as the C- series changers.
For comparison here's some photos of the Glenburn under deck mechanism. I actually really like the see-through orange plastic as you can see the mechanism underneath it so easily - good idea

the mech is really quite easy to remove and i should know as I've now stripped it 4 times and I've still not fixed the damn thing! the problem I have is if i set the stylus drop point correctly for 7/10/12 inch records, when the arm goes back to rest it lurches 1cm back towards the record and therefore misses the rest. if I set it to land on the rest perfectly it misses the edge of the record (how we say in Tasmania) "by a country mile". I've lubed it, I've unlubed it, I've removed and cleaned every piece of it, I've lay under it as the missus spins the platter by hand, but I cannot make it work properly!! on to the shelf of shame with it I think

Also I strangely don't have a spindle for mine either, have a single play spindle but not the autochanger spindle

cheers
Joe
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 1:01 pm   #11
mister valve
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayerjoe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben View Post
I have one of those AT100s, still after a spindle for it.

There was a post here in 2017 showing the BSR-badged version, the mechanics of each are very different, despite the two being virtually identical seen from the top.

The Glenburn seemed to use the curious orange plastic rods and alloy centre cam/bearing assembly. The BSR one was, well, pretty much the same below deck as the C- series changers.
For comparison here's some photos of the Glenburn under deck mechanism. I actually really like the see-through orange plastic as you can see the mechanism underneath it so easily - good idea

the mech is really quite easy to remove and i should know as I've now stripped it 4 times and I've still not fixed the damn thing! the problem I have is if i set the stylus drop point correctly for 7/10/12 inch records, when the arm goes back to rest it lurches 1cm back towards the record and therefore misses the rest. if I set it to land on the rest perfectly it misses the edge of the record (how we say in Tasmania) "by a country mile". I've lubed it, I've unlubed it, I've removed and cleaned every piece of it, I've lay under it as the missus spins the platter by hand, but I cannot make it work properly!! on to the shelf of shame with it I think

Also I strangely don't have a spindle for mine either, have a single play spindle but not the autochanger spindle

cheers
Joe
When I worked in the the Electronics industry back in the 1970's, we had a sample auto-changing record deck sent to us for evaluation. The Name on the deck was "Princess". It was clearly in competition with BSR but nowhere near the quality of the "BSR" product. I noticed that the "Princess" also used those translucent orange leavers in quite a few locations.
I have never seen, or heard, of "Princess" Auto-changers since, and our factory decided to continued with the trusty old BSR decks. Although our company tried making their own record decks for a while, but they were a complete c*ck-up

Maybe someone on here can shed some light on the "Princess" company & it's products ?
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 1:05 pm   #12
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Balfour.

Lawrence.
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 1:06 pm   #13
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Balfour Princess maybe?

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=62388

Crossed with Lawrence

Cheers

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Last edited by Cobaltblue; 19th Jan 2022 at 1:07 pm. Reason: Crossed with Lawrence
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 1:44 pm   #14
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

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Balfour Princess maybe?

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...ad.php?t=62388

Crossed with Lawrence

Cheers

Mike T
Many thanks for your help....

I have had a look at those "Balfour Princess" record decks, but I don't think it was any of those shown. I am almost certain that it looked similar to the standard "C" series of BSR products, but with a different mechanism. I can't remember much else in detail, as this would have been in the early to mid 1970's so it's nearly 50 years ago !
It may well have been made by "Balfour", but I don't know....

Just a thought, did the "Glenburn" company ever market any of their auto-changers under the 'Princess' name ? i.e. the "Glenburn Princess" - this is just a suggestion (not factual) ! All I can tell you is that our engineers weren't entirely impressed by the "Princess" evaluation sample .
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Old 19th Jan 2022, 3:17 pm   #15
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

There were two versions of the Balfour "Princess" decks, the differences being in the arm design. Both, however, were very much short on quality! Plastic turntables with no rubber mat, a very flimsy size selector, and difficult to fit cartridges other than the fitted Sonotone 20T, due to the arm dropping into a well at the end of the cycle, which was of limited dimensions. The overarm was also very light, and could hardly hold a stack of 78s in place.
Remembered with a shudder!

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Old 19th Jan 2022, 4:36 pm   #16
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

For those still with a copy of 'Just for the record' by Alan R Cox, the saga of Glenburn engineering and the involvement of Dr Daniel McDonald is well documented. It is worth reading..

Glenburn engineering was short lived, set up in '71/72 in competion with BSR, it became quite successful until in 1974, BSR bought out Glenburn. A clause in the buy out contract meant that all employees who had previously left BSR to go to Glenburn could have the offer of reinstatement.


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Old 22nd Jan 2022, 6:31 am   #17
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiltern View Post
For those still with a copy of 'Just for the record' by Alan R Cox, the saga of Glenburn engineering and the involvement of Dr Daniel McDonald is well documented. It is worth reading..

Glenburn engineering was short lived, set up in '71/72 in competion with BSR, it became quite successful until in 1974, BSR bought out Glenburn. A clause in the buy out contract meant that all employees who had previously left BSR to go to Glenburn could have the offer of reinstatement.


Alan
Thanks for updating the Glenburn story, nice they all got their jobs back and hopefully access to the 'executive washrooms'
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Old 22nd Jan 2022, 2:56 pm   #18
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

I noticed this item regarding Glenburn autochangers and it reminded me that I had one which appeared to be the same, hidden away somewhere in the workshop. Because of its similarity to BSR units, I had bought it in the hope that the turntable would fit a C series changer - it doesn't.
It seems to be complete apart from a cartridge and a small piece missing from the clip on the arm rest. The mechanism appears to work when turned by hand and the stacking spindle is present. Not tested beyond that.
I'm trying (not very successfully) to reduce the hoard - would anyone be interested in it?

Chris R
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 9:36 am   #19
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

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I noticed this item regarding Glenburn autochangers and it reminded me that I had one which appeared to be the same, hidden away somewhere in the workshop. Because of its similarity to BSR units, I had bought it in the hope that the turntable would fit a C series changer - it doesn't.
It seems to be complete apart from a cartridge and a small piece missing from the clip on the arm rest. The mechanism appears to work when turned by hand and the stacking spindle is present. Not tested beyond that.
I'm trying (not very successfully) to reduce the hoard - would anyone be interested in it?

Chris R
Well Chris I would have wanted it because I hate being beaten by a deck that has less than 10 moving parts, but just did a check and cheapest post to Tasmania is £73 (!), so THAT is a bit too much to find out why my own Glenburn is mis-behaving. I mean I'm curious but not 73 quid curious! Hope it finds a good home
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 4:54 pm   #20
Chris R
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Default Re: When is a BSR not a BSR?

Hello Joe

I thought our local postage rates were expensive!
As you say, there are not too many moving parts in the deck. Are you sure laying down on the job will get it sorted?
I'm sure that you will find the answer (Going away and leaving it for a while often works for me).

All the best,

Chris
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