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Vintage Audio (record players, hi-fi etc) Amplifiers, speakers, gramophones and other audio equipment.

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Old 5th Jan 2022, 6:56 pm   #1
RojDW48
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Default Small diameter gramophone needles?

I had a look inside the pickup of the RC49 today. It appears to take an old fashioned gramophone needle, but one of reduced diameter - my standard ones are too big. Does that make sense? Any ideas as to where to source?
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 7:23 pm   #2
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Looks like it employs the HMV Silent Stylus or Columbia '99' type special needles. Note the lack of a needle screw. John.
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Old 5th Jan 2022, 9:55 pm   #3
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Here are the HMV version:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313818918...cAAOSw8XVhyvfj

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Old 6th Jan 2022, 12:42 am   #4
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Thanks Barry. Are they smaller in diameter than standard, do you know?
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 1:58 am   #5
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

I too would like to know the diameter of the semi-permanent type referred to, e.g. the Columbia '99' as I don't have any examples here and I'm doubting what I thought I knew.

Conventional (single-play) needles came in three typical sizes:
Loud tone / extra loud / full tone: 1.5mm
Medium tone: 1.3mm
Soft tone: 1.0mm

The traditional multi-play needles (10-20 plays in acoustic or 'heavy' magnetic head) were normally 1.5mm. But the semi-permanent type in question (c.100 plays in lightweight magnetic head only) often black with a silver point, were IIRC similar to soft tone diameter, but I am not now sure if they were actually 1mm so don't quote me on that one.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 2:18 am   #6
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Those HMV needles shown in the advert are definitely not suitable, I've got a pack here in front of me right now and they're a thick stem gold plated type. I used to have a part full pack of the Columbia 99 type, but I seem to have lost it several years ago, but they are a special, short and very thin needle, not anywhere near the same as those HMV ones.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 10:13 am   #7
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

I have a couple of HMV "Silent Stylus for use with HMV Hyper Sensitive Pickup" needles here. They are 0.86mm wide and 10.86mm long
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 10:41 am   #8
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

The difference in size of the soft tone needle compared with the Columbia 99 miniature needle.

Originally designed for the HMV lightweight Hyper Sensitive pick up it will play a large number of 78s without reduction in quality. Note the black paint around the shaft that can just be seen on your picture.

I hope your pick up coil is OK. They go O/C, wound with thousands of turns of 50 gauge wire. Good luck with it. John.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 11:15 am   #9
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Just for completeness, HMV 'Silent Stylus' packet with reverse information. Note they have a black painted shaft often confused with the chrome long play needles that play 10 records designed for the early autochangers. Their shafts are usually painted red. Any attempt to force any other type of needle into the HS pick up with ruin it. John
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 11:28 am   #10
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

I have these needles, 0.033in diameter, if they are any use PM. Only 8 left in pack.

Alan
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 11:39 am   #11
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techman View Post
Those HMV needles shown in the advert are definitely not suitable, I've got a pack here in front of me right now and they're a thick stem gold plated type.
Thanks for the correction, I mistook these for the HMV Silent Stylus, which are the ones needed.

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Old 6th Jan 2022, 1:26 pm   #12
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
The difference in size of the soft tone needle compared with the Columbia 99 miniature needle.

Originally designed for the HMV lightweight Hyper Sensitive pick up it will play a large number of 78s without reduction in quality. Note the black paint around the shaft that can just be seen on your picture.

I hope your pick up coil is OK. They go O/C, wound with thousands of turns of 50 gauge wire. Good luck with it. John.
Thanks John - coil must be OK as it sounds very nice, with only a little distortion on big transients - which might even be record wear. I hadn't realised these tiny needles were good for so many plays.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 1:32 pm   #13
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

PM sent to Alan. Thanks to all - very helpful. I hadn't realised the significance of the differing needle dimensions. This old Collaro is so gorgeous that, all being well, it will be my main 78 player.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 4:02 pm   #14
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Aren't these needles for microgroove records? The SHURE head on my Collaro deck used them.
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Old 6th Jan 2022, 9:51 pm   #15
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

No B. These were introduced around 1937/38 together with the Hyper Sensitive pick up extensively used by the BBC and a large range of EMI grams just before the war for 78 RPM records. The Collaro 33/45 used a miniature sapphire stylus similar in appearance to the steel C99/HMV SS.
There was a sapphire that could replace the SS for 78. I have a couple somewhere. J.
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 6:31 pm   #16
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

when i had a marconi table top radiogram it used very thin steel needles but shorter than a standard wind up gramophone, i used to purchase new steel needles Extra Soft Tone and with wire cutter trim them to size, worked a treat and would play numerous sides as well , im pretty sure theres a gramophone needle seller on ebay who does all the "tone" versions
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Old 7th Jan 2022, 9:57 pm   #17
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

I posted this link in another recent thread but for completeness will repeat it here in case the original poster hadn't seen it. Miniature needles tipped with a sapphire are still available from musonic - both ones suitable for 78's and also ones suitable for mono long playing records. These will fit the head under discussion. Here is the link:

https://www.musonic.co.uk/?s=hmv+min...&type_aws=true

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Old 8th Jan 2022, 1:15 am   #18
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phonosandradios View Post
I posted this link in another recent thread but for completeness will repeat it here in case the original poster hadn't seen it. Miniature needles tipped with a sapphire are still available from musonic - both ones suitable for 78's and also ones suitable for mono long playing records. These will fit the head under discussion. Here is the link:

https://www.musonic.co.uk/?s=hmv+min...&type_aws=true
Thanks - I did take a look at that and I shall certainly buy one to try. Alan is going to send me a few of the old standard needles - so I shall be well set up. I have done the rewiring and fitting back into its (fairly) nice old case. The same kind of optimism from 60 or 70 years ago as I have today (with less than perfect carpentry skills) is evident. I feel quite a bond with the original enthusiast, who probably went to all that trouble to connect it to his very best radio.
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Old 23rd Jan 2022, 2:39 pm   #19
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Default Re: Small diameter gramophone needles?

I have 5 of these needles for the supersensitive pickup,thin,black on the blunt end.PM me if you would like them,FOC.Les
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