BSR Factory Workers: reaching out..

[_Cosmic_]

Well Folks here are some of my experiments so far.

I have 3 experiments running and an experiment testing the output voltage of a 1cm Rochelle crystal I grew.

So far I have 3 batches of Rochelle salt crystals growing.

Some of the method:
After cultivating the 3 batches of crystals I have amalgamated them into 2 batches and left them to grow in the cool at 15C degrees. These are:

Exp 1: Crystals growing from my first experiment with a few of the larger crystals added from Exp 2.
Exp 2 contains the larger crystals grown from Exp 2 and also from Exp 3.
All the small crystallites growing in the Exp 3 medium were filtered off and the salt solution used to top up the culture dishes of Exp 1 and 2.

Here are the results so far.
Especially notable are the 2 very large crystals that were grown in Experiment 3.
A 1cm crystal was used to conduct a voltage output test. The results of that coming up in my next post.

Meanwhile I am trying to contact the owners of the BSR manufacturing achieve if it still exists. Not a simple task. Any help at all from anyone would be greatly appreciated. It goes without saying, many thanks to everyone who has posted to this thread, it all helps.

[Borderer]

Is it known whether BSR actually made the crystal material themselves? Presumably they were not the only manufacturers of crystal cartridges, and this is the sort of specialised product which might well have been bought in from a chemical company.

[sparkymike]

I used a vibration sensor from RS same as above post and it worked, but fairly low output. This was for an RCA 45 RPM record player where the crystal had turned to slush. I believe I got the details on the net but as it was some years ago, not sure about that.
Mike.

[sparkymike]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9vcqTHhu_Y

This is a USA record player but principles should be similar.
Mike.

[_Cosmic_]

Originally Posted by Borderer

Is it known whether BSR actually made the crystal material themselves? Presumably they were not the only manufacturers of crystal cartridges, and this is the sort of specialised product which might well have been bought in from a chemical company.

I didn't even think of that! It makes perfect sense.
It strikes me as very odd that no one knows anything at all about them when they were produced in their millions. According to a text I read about the history of the business they (BSR) produced 250,000 a day just to keep up with the supply of Monarch decks for Dansette. Even if it was per week how could they make all those crystal elements?
It's all a complete mystery.
I'm still hoping someone will know something about it all.

[_Cosmic_]

Originally Posted by sparkymike

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9vcqTHhu_Y

This is a USA record player but principles should be similar.
Mike.

Yes mike I've come across that video.
I noticed straight away that the BSR crystal elements are at least half the size of that huge one he removed from the case. I don't think the BSR TC8 carts have enough space for the low output piezo element to fit in order to produce enough voltage.
I was going to try and fit piezo elements but people who have tried this after watching a certain video on Youtube by this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=it_JZLFtHAg) comment afterwards that the output is too low so it doesn't really work. On this video you can't see what he is up to but he has another where he replaces the crystal with a piezo.

[ben]

Re: BSR workers. Have you got a copy of the BSR Just for the Record book? Info here.

There are many staff names mentioned, as a large part of the book deals with personalities involved in the company. May be worth tracking down the author.

I got my copy from one of the generous forum members who posted in that thread! I still dip into it every now and then.

[_Cosmic_]

Its 73 quid on the net Ben.
Looks like it might be really useful.
I'm going to ask the library tomorrow to see if they can get it for me to borrow.

[_Cosmic_]

As promised here's a post about the 2 crystal voltage experiments I conducted last week.

1. I took one of my homegrown crystals, about 1.2cm, dried it off with paper towel and sandwiched it at either end along the Z axis in a vice with tin-foil leading to the probes of the multi-meter set on Volts (alternating).
I then tapped the crystal with metal tweezers at various positions, and also attempted to slightly flex the crystal to see what happened.
Results: A disappointing approximate 23mV was the highest output using metal tweezers to tap the crystal. Then I noticed on the video I took that I accidentally touched the tin-foil with the tweezers and it shot up to 70mV!

2. I reoriented the crystal and set the contacts along the x axis.
Results: 63mV was output.

This was all a bit disappointing as I was looking for at least 1 volt but I have much larger crystals to experiment on now and I also need to test along the Y axis.
I'm not giving up quite yet.

[cmjones01]

To measure the output properly, I think you need a digital scope, not a multimeter. There's no way a multimeter is going to respond quickly enough to the pulse generated by the tap from the tweezers to give an accurate reading of the voltage generated. It'll average it out over quite a large fraction of a second, and leave you with a disappointingly low reading.

Connect the crystal to a scope and you may be pleasantly surprised by the size of the signal. Or, failing a scope, try connecting the wires to the input of an audio amplifier and see how loud the resulting noise is!

Chris

[_Cosmic_]

Originally Posted by cmjones01

To measure the output properly, I think you need a digital scope, not a multimeter. There's no way a multimeter is going to respond quickly enough to the pulse generated by the tap from the tweezers to give an accurate reading of the voltage generated. It'll average it out over quite a large fraction of a second, and leave you with a disappointingly low reading.

Connect the crystal to a scope and you may be pleasantly surprised by the size of the signal. Or, failing a scope, try connecting the wires to the input of an audio amplifier and see how loud the resulting noise is!

Chris

Thanks Chris. Good point. I don't have a scope.
I will do as you suggest and connect it to the cartridge terminals of the record player and see what the response is. I have grown flat rectangular crystals large enough to actually mount inside a cartridge now so if the signal voltage is high enough I might be able to use them after trimming them down to fit without having to cut the rectangular shape in the right orientation of the crystal structure for it to generate enough voltage. I will post the result and let you know what happens.

[_Cosmic_]

Back on Topic.
Post 1.
Trying to contact past members of BSR via the book suggested by our forum member Ben..
Trying to borrow a copy of the book by Alan R Cox called Just for the record from Sunderland or Newcastle central Libraries has proved fruitless and also Sunderland University Library. I also tried the British Library. They don't even have one even though they said it is a legal requirement for the publishers to have sent them a copy.

[Nickthedentist]

I think this was almost a "self-published" effort, so there may not formally have been a publisher as such.

Are there any forums local to Old Hill or Rowley Regis which you could post your request on?

[_Cosmic_]

Back on topic, Reaching out to the Past BSR workforce.
Post 2
I have been trying to locate the BSR archives.
They must surely be stored somewhere or simply destroyed.
This is the path, which might help others on the same journey, I have used in order to track down the archives.

BSR, BSR International was sold to ASTEC, a maker of PC power supplies, based in Hong Kong.
This formed ASTEC (BSR) PLC.
ASTEC (BSR) PLC was sold to Artesyn Embedded Power Technologies, who were owned by Emerson. They remained in the offices of Astec (BSR) PLC.
Artesyn were sold to Advanced energy in September 1999 to form Artesyn (Advanced Energy). They remain in the same offices:
Astec House, The Waterfront Business Park, Merry Hill Dudley, DY2 0XH United Kingdom
In turn Artesyn are no longer part of the Emerson group of companies.
Having phoned Emerson and Artesyn, no one knows what happened to the BSR company archives.

The path has gone very cold at present.
According to the chap I spoke to about obtaining the book, On the Record, at Birmingham Library, There is a possibility that the BSR company archives reside with them as they are the holder of many company archives. They say that companies often donate their archives to the Library. I will contact them
on the slim change this happened.

That's it for now.

[John10b]

When I was trying to find out information about a small company in Aberystwyth, for another member, the local council archivist was most helpful and did find some old pictures, by looking through old newspapers. However there was no mention of company records being in the archives. However I think asking the council archivist and library to get involved is a good idea. Good luck in your search.
John

[OldTechFan96]

I'm not on FaceBook, but is there any ex BSR worker groups you could look into? Or even a local history group?

Looking at some manuals it looks like the factory moved once or twice.

Monarch Works, Old Hill, Staffs. They were here in the '50's.

Powke Lane, Cradley Heath, Warley, West Midlands. During the '70's

[wd40addict]

Be aware the book isn't particularly technical, it gives a decent history of the company followed by a lot of pictures of Xmas parties, works outings and the like.

[_Cosmic_]

Originally Posted by OldTechFan96

I'm not on Facebook, but is there any ex BSR worker groups you could look into? Or even a local history group?

Looking at some manuals it looks like the factory moved once or twice.

Monarch Works, Old Hill, Staffs. They were here in the '50's.

Powke Lane, Cradley Heath, Warley, West Midlands. During the '70's

Thanks for that.
I checked Facebook. The only group on there is a BSR Turntable fan group. I did get a lead that I'm trying to follow up but he isn't an easy person to contact. He was a Director for Astec BSR PLC. It looks like he is still alive unlike a chap I contacted today who worked for Sonotone for six years who's son told me he passed away last year.

I will publish all my contact names and more data when I get enough to create an interesting post for those following this.

[sparkymike]

In the 60's I went to Cosmocord/Acos which was on a road off Waltham Cross, leading to Waltham Abbey, I think and my father was an engineering inspector for Astralux, near Colchester. When we left , they gave us a free cartridge. I don't know which parts my dad had delivered to them, but probably the pins that come out of the rear of the cartridge. Was there any link between Acos and BSR I wonder?
I might still have that cartridge in a box somewhere. Probably gone slushy though inside !!
Mike.

[sparkymike]

Just had a look in the "gramophone spares box and found the cartridge in photo below. I will have to check it to see if it is ok. No sign of the Acos one, must have been pressed into service long ago.
The cartridge was screwed into the base of the box, which makes me wonder how many heavy handed people broke them,getting them out of the box, not realising that they had to undo the screw first !!
Mike.