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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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21st Oct 2021, 8:12 am | #1 |
Dekatron
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Government review on Radio and Audio
Article on the future of radio, paragraphs 8 and 9 have information on FM and Medium wave although the rest is worth reading.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...e_iOSApp_Other
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Frank |
21st Oct 2021, 10:29 am | #2 |
Octode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
This report is overdue, being originally commissioned in 2019. It will be interesting to see the whole report, including the findings on DAB. Whether the government now actually acts in the interest of listeners, we will have to wait and see.
And I don't understand; if 6.5 Million listeners are still enjoying MW services, why turn them off? |
21st Oct 2021, 10:54 am | #3 |
Dekatron
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Don't understand about FM either - I expect that date will be pushed back again.
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21st Oct 2021, 11:38 am | #4 |
Moderator
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
I see the industry is looking for even less regulation of commercial stations. 'Light touch' regulation over the last 40 years has resulted in the total destruction of meaningful local commercial radio in the UK.
Both the BBC and commercial operators want to end analogue broadcasting to save money. They'd prefer this to be done by the regulator because they then wouldn't get the blame for it. The government doesn't want the blame either though, so keeps procrastinating. |
21st Oct 2021, 11:39 am | #5 | |
Dekatron
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Quote:
The BBC is a special case for now, have to see what the 2027 charter provides. Trying to lure the next generation of listeners without alienating the ones they have is a fine balancing act, not always successful.
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21st Oct 2021, 1:26 pm | #6 |
Octode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Interesting and worrying. When you consider the possibility of commercial broadcasters re-distributing BBC programming with their own advertising inserted, you can even more understand why the BBC is so protective of its intellectual property rights in its content.
Mike |
21st Oct 2021, 3:06 pm | #7 |
Octode
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Midlands, UK.
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
FM could have a long life. It will be a long time before I own a car that comes DAB enabled and in-car audiences are huge.
Even if the national BBC channels abandoned FM it is still a very viable platform for local and community broadcasters. The national commercial broadcasters are much less likely to abandon FM until such audience might be negligable because of the number of people like me who drive analogue-only equipped bangers. Of course, freeing FM from national stations would result in more efficient use of the band. AM could equally be viable for local services. A few watts goes a long way and we know that AM can sound almost as good as FM given the right conditions. What is killing/has near killed AM is the in-house generated interference, plus the fact that modern AM equipped radios are pretty poor performers on the band. At 150 miles I get a nice signal from Radio Caroline’s 1kW but I have to use a (vintage) battery portable positioned in the right spot. The BBC sees itself as having its back against the wall and its funding model under threat. Once a name renowned respected around the world, indeed something of a behemoth, it is now a bit part player. This is much of the reason that it has jettisoned much of its programming for older traditional listeners in favour of youth with its many flavours of Radio One. Capturing this market is seen as vital for the BBC but, unfortunately, today’s kids have grown up with streaming services that are more to their tastes – their equivalent of many of us listening under the bedclothes to Radio Caroline. Thus, anxious not to lose listeners, the BBC is unlikely to give up its existing FM allocations easily. |
21st Oct 2021, 4:00 pm | #8 |
Dekatron
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
I think it's inevitable that AM broadcasting will go obsolete pretty soon; the only things I listen to on it are TalkSport and Caroline.
FM - provided ClassicFM and Greatest Hits Radio keep going for another decade I will be happy. Personally I feel that the highly-restrictive licensing requirements imposed by OFCOM etc. have been the death of radio: I would have preferred a much more-liberal "Pay £1000 for a licence and run up to 10Kw, broadcast what you like" model to have been adopted last millennium - that would at least have kept some decent momentum in the game - we could have seen a flowering of niche-market stations aimed at religious people, the LGBT+ community, truckers, working-from-home people, the business community.... along with specialist advertising to fund said stations. Interestingly, my new car came with a FM/DAB+ radio and the only stations I've bothered to set up on its presets are Classic FM, Greatest Hits Radio, Heart and BFBS Radio. The rest of my in-car listening comes from Spotify streaming or a 64Gb USB stick; you can get a _lot_ of downloads into 64Gb!
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21st Oct 2021, 4:42 pm | #9 |
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
I think that once a channel is shut down anyone should be able to use it, same power, same technical fitness with no licence fee. All they have to do is prove the technical bit. OK it may populate the bands with pop carp but at least it will be there.
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21st Oct 2021, 9:24 pm | #10 |
Heptode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Personally I would never listen to Greatest Hits Radio due to moral issues but as for FM/MW, what else could use the band?, whilst there are still plenty of users of both formats why loose a revenue stream if there is nothing else to replace it, plus as a lot of the transmission towers for FM-VHF radio have other users who could see a marked increase in their costs and for the mobile phone operators they would naturally push that cost onto the consumer.
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21st Oct 2021, 9:25 pm | #11 | |
Nonode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Quote:
Cheers Aub
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21st Oct 2021, 9:35 pm | #12 | |
Octode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
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21st Oct 2021, 9:40 pm | #13 |
Nonode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
I think the comment about revenue sums it up. We don’t make wireless programmes to educate, inform and entertain anymore, only to make money. It’s sad.
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21st Oct 2021, 9:43 pm | #14 | ||
Nonode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Quote:
thanks aub
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21st Oct 2021, 10:00 pm | #15 | |
Dekatron
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
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Anyway the recommendations are to keep FM until,at least 2030 and many older cars without DAB will be off the road by then. Could be they turn off FM and DAB and expect us to stream from our phones. Interesting times.
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21st Oct 2021, 10:07 pm | #16 |
Dekatron
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Commercial stations have always been about revenue, like any other business. The BBC is in a slightly different position but it still needs to justify its licence fee by audience numbers.
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Frank |
26th Oct 2021, 12:59 pm | #17 | ||
Octode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Quote:
However, marketing people know that folk are inherently ‘lazy’. In a commercial environment it is vital you make it as easy as possible for customers to access your service. If some broadcasters switched off their FM outlets, many with analogue radios would just listen to what they would still get on analogue. That is lost audience vital to advertisers. A glance up and down the roads around me reveals there are many vehicles ten to twenty years old still on the road. Changing a set is no longer a DIY job – and for many never was anyway – so involves cost of a set and fitting. (Having a DAB radio fitted to my car would probably double its value!) The main market for fitting new kit to old cars is kids who want to impress their peers with latest and greatest boom box. (There are plenty of those types my way!) I have been down this track twice: back in the nineties when my car only had MW/LW and I’m actually in that situation again as most of my home listening is to stations only available on DAB and my car only has AM/FM. However, I am not addicted enough to the DAB stations to bother with changing a receiver. Fitting an adapter is a faff, especially in a modern(ish) car with custom consoles/dashboards and custom fit interior panels, and a mobile phone has similar issues, plus it uses data. The announcement of closure dates (that are invariably rolled back) is an example of the psychological ‘nudge’ technique favoured by those in whom we invest power. If I was working to achieve the elimination of FM, with the population having already experienced a DSO for TV, I wouldn’t disabuse those who might assume that the same will apply to radio and that FM stations will disappear overnight, should it encourage them to rush out and buy new sets. There is a ready made solution that would encourage migration and that is to close the BBC FM (and remaining AM) outlets; however, there may well be resistance within the BBC for, ironically, similar reasons to those of the commercial stations. In a world with ever-expanding media it sees its funding model under threat and good audience figures for Radios 1, 2 and 4 in particular are vital: not only to justify to Government that the licence fee should be retained but also to keep the name of the BBC prominent with younger generations so that they will be happy to continue to fund it in the traditional way. In my view, as AM is still not quite dead, I think FM will be around a long time yet. For nationals it is inefficient in several ways, not least the number of frequencies required to deliver their services, but it is of proven technical quality and would continue to be viable for delivering local services. |
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26th Oct 2021, 1:37 pm | #18 |
Nonode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
Even though FM reception is not so good where I live I am delighted that the possible switch off date for FM has been extended to 2030 and beyond.
Even with the weaker and variable FM signal BBC R2 still sounds clearer than it does on a strong DAB signal. The same also applies when I listen to Absolute and BBC R4 on AM both sound better than DAB especially Absolute which sounds horrible on reduced bit rate DAB. Sound quality aside the national FM network coverage across the country especially for the BBC is excellent. And in areas of poor FM reception its often the case that DAB reception also drops suffers.
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26th Oct 2021, 4:44 pm | #19 |
Dekatron
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
It’s a review so anything could happen with it, it is not set in stone but worth keeping in mind what advice is being given to those in power.
I rarely use FM, DAB does all I need at home and on the move, appreciate its not the same for everyone.
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Frank |
27th Oct 2021, 9:27 pm | #20 |
Pentode
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Re: Government review on Radio and Audio
As a person living outside UK it is interesting to compare. In Sweden the government has decided to abandon the intended switch to DAB, at least for the foreseeable future Our national broadcaster did some attempts some years ago but since then most of these transmissions has been shut off. In 1999 it covered 85% of the population but in 2002 this was reduced to 35% which still is the current coverage.
The governments argument has mainly been these: -There is almost no public demand -Too many radios will be unusable -Defence- and catastrophic transmissions may be affected negatively. In our neighbour country Norway the national broadcaster NRK left FM in 2017, over a night they lost 20% of their listeners and have still not recovered. |