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Old 5th Dec 2021, 8:12 am   #21
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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I'm still not sure how the last digit was chosen, though.
Sequentially, starting with 1 and ending with 0*. There will always be exceptions, but as I understand it the "most important" (or first to go STD) was given 1 and so on down the line until the tenth one with those letters was given 0.

For example, York was given 0901 (0YO1) and 0904, Wolverhampton 0902 (0WO2) and 0907, Worthing 0903 and 0906, Worcester 0905, Wolverton 0908, Worksop had 0909, and finally Workington got 0900.

Incidentally, not all exchange numbers used the first two letters (or initials), presumably because there were more than ten that would resolve to the same number. For instance, the code assigned to Bewdley was 0299 (0BY9).

*It would seem, however, that the codes originally beginning 00 never ended with a 1, so Oxford's 0092 was the first 009 code to be assigned.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 9:25 pm   #22
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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Lots of places got codes that didn't correspond to the exchange name for whatever reason. Oxford got 865 for example.
The story I heard was that there was no logical order , and exchange codes ( after the major cities I assume) was a mater of which exchange got STD first with further numbers added as suffixes to rout a call through from the parent exchange to the dependant one. It was ( as I heard it) a matter of looking in a book and allocating the next free code. Around the same time there was a set of operator codes which bore no relation to the STD codes. This was ( from my understanding) what the register translator dialled when it received your area code.
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Old 10th Dec 2021, 11:09 pm   #23
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

http://www.wtng.info/

This is a good guide to international dialling codes, I was trying to find it online a few days ago but couldn't remember the site name!
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Old 12th Dec 2021, 3:29 pm   #24
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

This is fascinating stuff.

I long ago figured that there was some sort of alphabetical sequence to the 0789/01789 numbers and can recall pre-internet when only having the telephone number of a firm that wasn’t on a ‘local to me’ code and wanting to know where it was located going to a telephone directory to look up the area code. As the areas were listed first I would look towards the end of the list if the code started with a high number.
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Old 12th Dec 2021, 4:15 pm   #25
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Nowadays there is a handy numerical list at http://www.area-codes.org.uk/full-uk-area-code-list.php.
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Old 12th Dec 2021, 5:50 pm   #26
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Before the advent of All Figure Numbers (AFN) around 1967 STD dialling codes were given as a combination of digits and letters. for example:

Norwich 0NO3 (0603) later 01603. It's a good thing letter O and digit 0 were in the same place on the dial.

The campaign to promote AFN's featured a girl name ANN All figure Numbers Now.

You used to get a separate Dialling Instruction Book (DIB), listing the codes, in addition to a directory.
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Old 13th Dec 2021, 10:53 pm   #27
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Lots of places got codes that didn't correspond to the exchange name for whatever reason. Oxford got 865 for example.
I am pretty sure that Oxford's code of 0865 was based on its being a university city i.e. 0UN5, I have read this somewhere.
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Old 13th Dec 2021, 11:05 pm   #28
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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19 was the French international egress code, before it became 00
You may well be right and memory is playing tricks, but when I was staying in Paris in the early 80s I'm sure it was necessary to dial 2 digits (which I remember as 19) and wait for a dialtone before dialling ether a non-Parisian French or international number. It's a long time ago though.
19 was the international access code at that time from France (later changed to 00), you then waited a couple of seconds to get the second dialtone then dialled the country code and number.

16 (not 19) was the code for internal dialling within France at that time, and once again you had to wait for the second dialtone, then dial the number and quite often you heard rapid pips (a connecting tone) for some time before the number started ringing. These rapid pips were also heard by users dialling from other countries, they were quite common in France.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 10:22 am   #29
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

I remember the phone books used to have a guide to international dialling, with descriptions of what tones to expect to here & other useful information like regional dialling codes, time differences & different working weeks.

Also my Dad had a diary with a list of international dialling codes before they were standardised, with a note symbol if you needed to hear a tone before completing the number.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 9:10 pm   #30
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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I remember the phone books used to have a guide to international dialling, with descriptions of what tones to expect to here & other useful information like regional dialling codes, time differences & different working weeks.

Also my Dad had a diary with a list of international dialling codes before they were standardised, with a note symbol if you needed to hear a tone before completing the number.
The phone book did used to have a comprehensive listing of international dialling codes including the type of ringing/engaged tones in use etc for each country. However, this seemed slightly unnecessary as I think anyone can tell when a phone is ringing out or not even if the ring is different e.g. a single ringtone (instead of double ringtone as the UK uses).

Also countries change their tones also sometimes e.g. Cyprus used to have a double ringtone in the 1970s certainly, and now has a single ringtone.

And with the advent of mobile telephony I have found you can receive different tones, e.g. when ringing my brother's mobile which is a Germany number starting with 0049 I have sometimes received the British type double ring instead of the German style ringing tone.
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Old 14th Dec 2021, 10:13 pm   #31
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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Originally Posted by Richard_FM View Post
I remember the phone books used to have a guide to international dialling, with descriptions of what tones to expect to here & other useful information like regional dialling codes, time differences & different working weeks.

Also my Dad had a diary with a list of international dialling codes before they were standardised, with a note symbol if you needed to hear a tone before completing the number.
The phone book did used to have a comprehensive listing of international dialling codes including the type of ringing/engaged tones in use etc for each country. However, this seemed slightly unnecessary as I think anyone can tell when a phone is ringing out or not even if the ring is different e.g. a single ringtone (instead of double ringtone as the UK uses).

Also countries change their tones also sometimes e.g. Cyprus used to have a double ringtone in the 1970s certainly, and now has a single ringtone.

And with the advent of mobile telephony I have found you can receive different tones, e.g. when ringing my brother's mobile which is a Germany number starting with 0049 I have sometimes received the British type double ring instead of the German style ringing tone.
I presume the different tones were mentioned so callers wouldn't get confused by hearing something different.

At one time there were only so many international lines, & the operator would tell you to try calling again later.

I can remember one of my French textbooks mentioning this, which was a few years old & probably no longer relevant.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 8:27 am   #32
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

Prior to that excellent explanation there was a huge whole in 'being able to understand this' process. Thanks!
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 8:43 am   #33
Dave Moll
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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Originally Posted by Hermitcrab View Post
The phone book did used to have a comprehensive listing of international dialling codes including the type of ringing/engaged tones in use etc for each country. However, this seemed slightly unnecessary as I think anyone can tell when a phone is ringing out or not even if the ring is different e.g. a single ringtone (instead of double ringtone as the UK uses).
Actually, I seem to remember ringing a number in Germany many years ago and getting what sounded like the UK's engaged tone but was actually the German ringing tone. In fact, checking the World Tone Database, it seems it remains unchanged today, though I notice that its cadence is somewhat slower (and a semitone higher in pitch) than UK engaged. Also, China's dial tone (as presented by a unit I use to connect a landline telephone to the mobile network) sounds similar to the UK number unobtainable tone, so such information can help to dispel confusion. Of course, WTD is even better because you can hear the tones for yourself rather than read a description of them.
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Last edited by Dave Moll; 15th Dec 2021 at 8:49 am.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 10:36 am   #34
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

On some international calls, you now hear 'local' progress tones generated by your own exchange, not the overseas one. I noticed this last weekend when I called a number in Canada from a TalkTalk UK landline. I heard the British "burr-burr" ringing tone until the call was answered.

This has been happening for a number of years now. Since the arrival of digital telephone exchanges, analogue speech and sound has been digitised (at typically 8000 samples per second) then sent as data. The destination exchange converts the data back into analogue audio on the customer's phone line.

While progress tones can be sent in the same way as speech, it's not as efficient. Instead of 8000 samples per second, the exchange only has to send a few bytes of data to indicate the status (ringing, busy, unobtainable). The distant exchange can generate the appropriate tones. This saves data, enabling more calls to be carried on the same circuit which reduces costs.

Not all foregn exchanges are compatible with this method so you may still hear foreign progress tones on international calls. The old Phone Books used to describe the tones, or you could call the operator who could demonstrate them to you. Occasionally, when making international calls, I got a recorded announcement in a foreign language - a bit of a problem if you can't understand it. I recall one that said "ce numero n'existe pas" (=number unobtainable) and another I couldn't work out what it said, just had to try again later. In the UK, the number unobtainable tone seems to have been replaced by a "number not recognised" recorded announcement from landlines or three rising tones from mobile phones.
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 3:30 pm   #35
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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On some international calls, you now hear 'local' progress tones generated by your own exchange, not the overseas one.
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...... or three rising tones from mobile phones.
There's a variety of things with mobiles, but in a similar vein, to save data, its often the actual phone that produces the tone. It's not uncommon that when you hear a ringing tone, it's your phone, and tha data only starts to flow once the call is answered. I noticed this start to happen some years ago when calling overseas (mostly Germany).
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Old 15th Dec 2021, 11:09 pm   #36
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Default Re: Why did Leeds get the 0532 dialling code ?

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Occasionally, when making international calls, I got a recorded announcement in a foreign language - a bit of a problem if you can't understand it. I recall one that said "ce numero n'existe pas" (=number unobtainable) and another I couldn't work out what it said, just had to try again later.
The international operator could have helped with this: they would either be familiar with the recording and know what it meant, or if not they would ring their counterpart in the distant country and ask for a translation.

I was looking at the World Tone Database and see that the connecting tone or "route tone" of rapid pips which you used to hear on many phone calls to France at one time is still shown as in use to some destinations such as Benin, and Wallis and Futuna which is a French territory. It was discontinued in France during the 1990's.
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