Bob Howe wants to know. What was the worst CRT TV to work on and why? - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

bobhowe · 15th Jul 2021, 5:14 pm

Hi as per title CRT TV only please kind regards Bob

ben · 15th Jul 2021, 10:42 pm

This has come up a few times. The Thomson ICC5 seems to take the prize!

slidertogrid · 15th Jul 2021, 11:29 pm

Plenty of early '70s models were pretty dreadful . The Emo sets were heavy because of the mains transformer (that went up in flames) had a secam converted to PAL decoder, used E series valves which usually were not in stock.
The Telefunken 711 was built for 220v so sets used in the UK cooked and burned up the line oscillator transformer which became hard to get, that is if it hadn't destroyed the main panel. The Sony 1810ub blew up expensive SGSs and when you did get it going the tube was usually flat or at least past its best.
Then there was that awful thing that looked like a CVC5 but had a 25KV overwind on the lopt. Also built for 220v they ate LOPTs at £50 quid a go and destroyed tubes due to overrunning. Most were scrapped by 5 years old. The T20 which had terrible reliability problems on early models.
Later on we had the delights of the Amstrad "superwide". not forgetting the Thompson crap full of bad solder joints, which while it wasn't hard to fix packed up regularly and sometimes used videocolour tubes which gave inferior pictures and had a short life. Then there was the Sharp that blew up before you sold them and wrote the main PCB off.
While you could sort of forgive the early sets being a bit poor for various reasons some manufactures just didn't learn or seem to care .
That said all of those years in the trade never did me any harm...twitch... tick harrump...

Rich

toshiba tony · 16th Jul 2021, 9:41 am

Brilliant sets with their 116 degree tube. The Sony KV1810. People ran from them but we got them tamed. GCS's were expensive but once preventative repairs were carried out they went forever.

Station X · 16th Jul 2021, 10:01 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobhowe

Hi as per title CRT TV only please kind regards Bob

What's the worst one you've worked on Bob?

Andrew2 · 16th Jul 2021, 11:26 am

My heart used to sink whenever a PYE CT205 (697 chassis?) landed on my bench. I hated the wretched things, probably because we didn't come across many of them and so my experience was limited. The slowly-cooking CDA board, the edge connectors, the unreliable timebase board (much of which was extremely hard to get at) and the spaghetti factory wires everywhere. UGH, I'm getting the willies just writing this...

Oh and the Pye 'Lego' chassis, which seemed to have been the product of someone's bad dream. It could take about a week to slide the boards in & out.

And could we ever forget the Thorn 9800? Seemed to be made up of leftovers from the 8500 and some newly conjured-up bits. The chassis used to flop about like cardboard. We were Thorn agents so we had plenty of these things out on rent.
I'm off for a lie down!

IKC2E51R8 · 16th Jul 2021, 2:55 pm

I've never repaired CRTs professionally but since I started learning how to fix them, my least favourite to work on was my Philips Anubis AAC mostly because the vast amount of SMDs.

Also my Dansai using the GT9313 chassis by Artech (should have been simple to fix but ended up using a donor board from another set to fix)

stevehertz · 16th Jul 2021, 3:36 pm

I've never worked on any 'modern' CRT teles. But from talking to friends who have, and what I've read on here, a lot of the faults on 70s sets were stock electro-mechanical or stock electronic faults. And as such, whenever such a set was worked on, these issues were dealt with regardless. After which, there was a good chance that the set would work. I'm not suggesting that the TV repairman's job was an easy one, but there were a lot of stock faults, so much so that you could buy lists of stock faults for sets. They were well documented including in faults pages of Television magazine.

ben · 16th Jul 2021, 3:53 pm

For me, sets with poor access for repair get my goat. There was a Schneider 100hz DTV chassis whose frame chip was squeezed on the inside of a huge heatsink around the LOPTX. Prone to failure due to poor airflow and awkward to get at. Ditto that Amstrad 2210 with no connectors and rats nest of wires. Never had much luck with mid90s sharps with their picky LOPT stages and tiny pcbs.

bobhowe · 16th Jul 2021, 5:40 pm

Hi Station X me not been a TV engineer by trade ( i was a Mot Tester / Mechanic before i retired in 2019 ) so TV & Radios is a hobby . The worst TV i worked on was a Pye colour tv can not remember the model but it had valves & transistors & i could not get the convergence right kind regards Bob

agardiner · 16th Jul 2021, 5:51 pm

Can't remember the model number, but there was a late series of Sharp sets (around the same time as the Vestel AK19's), that had a terrible surface mount SMPS on the underside of the PCB. The rest of the set was through hole, but I always dreaded opening one up as you often found a pile of burnt components lying in the bottom of the cabinet.

slidertogrid · 16th Jul 2021, 5:59 pm

The problem with the Pye 205 series was down to cost cutting and poor ventilation caused by the tiny slots in the back cover, and the cheaper panels made of inferior paxolin. The earlier sets with the metal timebase chassis and red coloured PCBs had larger slots and didn't get so hot, the same for the 26" sets which had more room. The hot summer of '76 caused a lot of 205s to cook the CDA panel which then failed a year or two later. if it wasn't too bad you could save it by fitting stand off valve bases and changing a few resistors.
If you overhauled them properly replacing the known problem parts, the blue and white capacitors, a handful of resistors etc they were quite good. It was best to bin the black focus unit and replace it with the later grey one if you didn't want a fire though. The firm I worked for had 10 to 12 years out of them on rental which was much better than some sets. The 731 I agree was poor with the complexity caused by the extra correction for the 110" tube. The A1 cap would go short and burn out the tripler, LOPT and line output transistor which could be a swine to change in the house as it was heavily soldered in If you didn't have a weller soldering gun or a blowlamp on the van.
The later 725 reverted to the 90" tube and was much better especially if you knew the two 2R2 carbon resistors on the tube base tended to go high and didn't write it off for a low tube. I used to fit a wirewound for long term reliability.
A lot of engineers didn't like the Thorn 3000 / 3500 sets around here but again if you dug in and replaced a few electrolytics (probably again caused by the heat cooking them) they were OK. I didn't like the 8800 etc so much they were a cheapo interim thing . The 4000 was a horrid thing full of thick film modules quickly flogged off by the rental firms (sold by OTV who then disowned them ) but we didn't see many. Once the TX9 /10 came out Thorn sets were brilliant until Thomp$on started making the sets!

Rich.

theredhouseinn · 16th Jul 2021, 6:06 pm

The Baird valve set sold by Radio Rentals in the early 60's, can't remember the model no., ran so hot it only worked for a few days after repair then packed up again. Worse than the Marconi consol with mains eht in the 50's. It didn't get me as I am still here.
John.

Bobdger · 16th Jul 2021, 6:37 pm

The pye ct72 the earlier version of the 202 205 chassis with a metal smoke stack, plugin 25kv connections to the focus unit. And last off the horrid yellow sticky tape that held the cda leads to the CRT apart. The bunny ears found many uses for my sailing boat and motor bike.
Bob

chriswood1900 · 16th Jul 2021, 7:06 pm

EMO, terrible design, appalling build, ghastly picture, poor reliability and a fire risk.

Richard_FM · 16th Jul 2021, 10:30 pm

The Philips G11 has got a bad reputation in some circles for giving trouble & being hard to fix.

Same with the GEC sets with double printed boards, which I've heard being likened to technical school projects rather than professionally made.

Red to black · 16th Jul 2021, 10:47 pm

The G11 was a fine set, easy enough to fix and fairly reliable, a bit quirky in places granted, but still a known fault history, I only wish more sets were more like the G11! they lasted well into the first half of the 90's
There were far, far worse believe you me!

Andrew2 · 16th Jul 2021, 11:25 pm

I recall the Philips G9 being a rather clumsy design, as if it had been rushed through. I can't say very much about it as I only ever came across two of them. The G11 was a pretty nice set with just a few problem areas. We had a few out on rent and they didn't cause us much grief.

IKC2E51R8 · 17th Jul 2021, 12:53 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by agardiner

Can't remember the model number, but there was a late series of Sharp sets (around the same time as the Vestel AK19's), that had a terrible surface mount SMPS on the underside of the PCB. The rest of the set was through hole, but I always dreaded opening one up as you often found a pile of burnt components lying in the bottom of the cabinet.

Most likely the Sharp CS Chassis, from what Ive gathered on here, they were hated (probably even more than the ICC5). I've heard some of them blew up in the showrooms before they even got to be sold

slidertogrid · 17th Jul 2021, 10:47 am

We started to sell Sharp in the 1990's . We fell out with Ferguson at the end of the TX100 series over the Dixons deal . On the whole the Sharp sets were dreadful one went off with a hell of a bang one morning in the showroom and it had blown the corner off the main PCB. Sharp sent a repair kit to fix it and expected us to repair the panel. When I objected they sent us a replacement chassis. They should have replaced the set really.
We didn't deal with Sharp for long after that so we were probably spared the later sets which sound like they were even worse!
The good thing about ending our Ferguson franchise was that we were spared all of the ICC crap! We only saw a few as chargeable repairs.
After Sharp we went on to sell Toshiba. They were marvellous and we saw very few back for repair.
We sold a load of the Philips 9752 21" Nicam sets (bought used but only a few years old) they were good with only a few lopt failures so when widescreen came out we went over to Philips widescreen sets.... least said the better !
By the time tube failures had become epidemic and the painter chip fiasco had germinated I had sold up and gone to run a car servicing garage! At the time VW used an ignition coil that looked suspiciously like a TX100 LOPT.... Guess what? They dropped like flies often splitting open and exposing the windings just like in the TX !

15th Jul 2021, 5:14 pm	#1
bobhowe Heptode Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 661	Bob Howe wants to know. What was the worst CRT TV to work on and why? Hi as per title CRT TV only please kind regards Bob

15th Jul 2021, 10:42 pm	#2
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why This has come up a few times. The Thomson ICC5 seems to take the prize! __________________ Regards, Ben.

15th Jul 2021, 11:29 pm	#3
slidertogrid Octode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 1,898	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why Plenty of early '70s models were pretty dreadful . The Emo sets were heavy because of the mains transformer (that went up in flames) had a secam converted to PAL decoder, used E series valves which usually were not in stock. The Telefunken 711 was built for 220v so sets used in the UK cooked and burned up the line oscillator transformer which became hard to get, that is if it hadn't destroyed the main panel. The Sony 1810ub blew up expensive SGSs and when you did get it going the tube was usually flat or at least past its best. Then there was that awful thing that looked like a CVC5 but had a 25KV overwind on the lopt. Also built for 220v they ate LOPTs at £50 quid a go and destroyed tubes due to overrunning. Most were scrapped by 5 years old. The T20 which had terrible reliability problems on early models. Later on we had the delights of the Amstrad "superwide". not forgetting the Thompson crap full of bad solder joints, which while it wasn't hard to fix packed up regularly and sometimes used videocolour tubes which gave inferior pictures and had a short life. Then there was the Sharp that blew up before you sold them and wrote the main PCB off. While you could sort of forgive the early sets being a bit poor for various reasons some manufactures just didn't learn or seem to care . That said all of those years in the trade never did me any harm...twitch... tick harrump... Rich

16th Jul 2021, 9:41 am	#4
toshiba tony Heptode Join Date: May 2006 Location: Accrington, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 978	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why Brilliant sets with their 116 degree tube. The Sony KV1810. People ran from them but we got them tamed. GCS's were expensive but once preventative repairs were carried out they went forever.

16th Jul 2021, 11:26 am	#6
Andrew2 Nonode Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK. Posts: 2,037	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why My heart used to sink whenever a PYE CT205 (697 chassis?) landed on my bench. I hated the wretched things, probably because we didn't come across many of them and so my experience was limited. The slowly-cooking CDA board, the edge connectors, the unreliable timebase board (much of which was extremely hard to get at) and the spaghetti factory wires everywhere. UGH, I'm getting the willies just writing this... Oh and the Pye 'Lego' chassis, which seemed to have been the product of someone's bad dream. It could take about a week to slide the boards in & out. And could we ever forget the Thorn 9800? Seemed to be made up of leftovers from the 8500 and some newly conjured-up bits. The chassis used to flop about like cardboard. We were Thorn agents so we had plenty of these things out on rent. I'm off for a lie down! __________________ Andy G1HBE.

16th Jul 2021, 2:55 pm	#7
IKC2E51R8 Hexode Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Dublin, Republic of Ireland. Posts: 493	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why I've never repaired CRTs professionally but since I started learning how to fix them, my least favourite to work on was my Philips Anubis AAC mostly because the vast amount of SMDs. Also my Dansai using the GT9313 chassis by Artech (should have been simple to fix but ended up using a donor board from another set to fix) __________________ Cheers, Luke

16th Jul 2021, 3:36 pm	#8
stevehertz Dekatron Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Rugeley, Staffordshire, UK. Posts: 8,831	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why I've never worked on any 'modern' CRT teles. But from talking to friends who have, and what I've read on here, a lot of the faults on 70s sets were stock electro-mechanical or stock electronic faults. And as such, whenever such a set was worked on, these issues were dealt with regardless. After which, there was a good chance that the set would work. I'm not suggesting that the TV repairman's job was an easy one, but there were a lot of stock faults, so much so that you could buy lists of stock faults for sets. They were well documented including in faults pages of Television magazine. __________________ A digital radio is the latest thing, but a vintage wireless is forever..

16th Jul 2021, 3:53 pm	#9
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why For me, sets with poor access for repair get my goat. There was a Schneider 100hz DTV chassis whose frame chip was squeezed on the inside of a huge heatsink around the LOPTX. Prone to failure due to poor airflow and awkward to get at. Ditto that Amstrad 2210 with no connectors and rats nest of wires. Never had much luck with mid90s sharps with their picky LOPT stages and tiny pcbs. __________________ Regards, Ben.

16th Jul 2021, 5:40 pm	#10
bobhowe Heptode Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 661	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why Hi Station X me not been a TV engineer by trade ( i was a Mot Tester / Mechanic before i retired in 2019 ) so TV & Radios is a hobby . The worst TV i worked on was a Pye colour tv can not remember the model but it had valves & transistors & i could not get the convergence right kind regards Bob

16th Jul 2021, 5:51 pm	#11
agardiner Octode Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Thetford, Norfolk, UK. Posts: 1,741	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why Can't remember the model number, but there was a late series of Sharp sets (around the same time as the Vestel AK19's), that had a terrible surface mount SMPS on the underside of the PCB. The rest of the set was through hole, but I always dreaded opening one up as you often found a pile of burnt components lying in the bottom of the cabinet.

16th Jul 2021, 5:59 pm	#12
slidertogrid Octode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 1,898	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why The problem with the Pye 205 series was down to cost cutting and poor ventilation caused by the tiny slots in the back cover, and the cheaper panels made of inferior paxolin. The earlier sets with the metal timebase chassis and red coloured PCBs had larger slots and didn't get so hot, the same for the 26" sets which had more room. The hot summer of '76 caused a lot of 205s to cook the CDA panel which then failed a year or two later. if it wasn't too bad you could save it by fitting stand off valve bases and changing a few resistors. If you overhauled them properly replacing the known problem parts, the blue and white capacitors, a handful of resistors etc they were quite good. It was best to bin the black focus unit and replace it with the later grey one if you didn't want a fire though. The firm I worked for had 10 to 12 years out of them on rental which was much better than some sets. The 731 I agree was poor with the complexity caused by the extra correction for the 110" tube. The A1 cap would go short and burn out the tripler, LOPT and line output transistor which could be a swine to change in the house as it was heavily soldered in If you didn't have a weller soldering gun or a blowlamp on the van. The later 725 reverted to the 90" tube and was much better especially if you knew the two 2R2 carbon resistors on the tube base tended to go high and didn't write it off for a low tube. I used to fit a wirewound for long term reliability. A lot of engineers didn't like the Thorn 3000 / 3500 sets around here but again if you dug in and replaced a few electrolytics (probably again caused by the heat cooking them) they were OK. I didn't like the 8800 etc so much they were a cheapo interim thing . The 4000 was a horrid thing full of thick film modules quickly flogged off by the rental firms (sold by OTV who then disowned them ) but we didn't see many. Once the TX9 /10 came out Thorn sets were brilliant until Thomp$on started making the sets! Rich.

16th Jul 2021, 6:06 pm	#13
theredhouseinn Hexode Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Kelvedon, Essex, UK. Posts: 273	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why The Baird valve set sold by Radio Rentals in the early 60's, can't remember the model no., ran so hot it only worked for a few days after repair then packed up again. Worse than the Marconi consol with mains eht in the 50's. It didn't get me as I am still here. John.

16th Jul 2021, 6:37 pm	#14
Bobdger Hexode Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Rustington, West Sussex, UK. Posts: 383	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why The pye ct72 the earlier version of the 202 205 chassis with a metal smoke stack, plugin 25kv connections to the focus unit. And last off the horrid yellow sticky tape that held the cda leads to the CRT apart. The bunny ears found many uses for my sailing boat and motor bike. Bob __________________ Bob, BVWS member

16th Jul 2021, 7:06 pm	#15
chriswood1900 Octode Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dorridge, West Midlands, UK. Posts: 1,483	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why EMO, terrible design, appalling build, ghastly picture, poor reliability and a fire risk. __________________ Chris Wood BVWS Member

16th Jul 2021, 10:30 pm	#16
Richard_FM Nonode Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK. Posts: 2,002	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why The Philips G11 has got a bad reputation in some circles for giving trouble & being hard to fix. Same with the GEC sets with double printed boards, which I've heard being likened to technical school projects rather than professionally made. __________________ Hello IT: Have you Tried Turning It Off & On Again?

16th Jul 2021, 10:47 pm	#17
Red to black Nonode Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sunderland, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 2,475	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why The G11 was a fine set, easy enough to fix and fairly reliable, a bit quirky in places granted, but still a known fault history, I only wish more sets were more like the G11! they lasted well into the first half of the 90's There were far, far worse believe you me! __________________ I don't suffer from Insanity. I enjoy every minute of it.

16th Jul 2021, 11:25 pm	#18
Andrew2 Nonode Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Dukinfield, Cheshire, UK. Posts: 2,037	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why I recall the Philips G9 being a rather clumsy design, as if it had been rushed through. I can't say very much about it as I only ever came across two of them. The G11 was a pretty nice set with just a few problem areas. We had a few out on rent and they didn't cause us much grief. __________________ Andy G1HBE.

17th Jul 2021, 10:47 am	#20
slidertogrid Octode Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK. Posts: 1,898	Re: What Was The Worst CRT TV To Work On & Why We started to sell Sharp in the 1990's . We fell out with Ferguson at the end of the TX100 series over the Dixons deal . On the whole the Sharp sets were dreadful one went off with a hell of a bang one morning in the showroom and it had blown the corner off the main PCB. Sharp sent a repair kit to fix it and expected us to repair the panel. When I objected they sent us a replacement chassis. They should have replaced the set really. We didn't deal with Sharp for long after that so we were probably spared the later sets which sound like they were even worse! The good thing about ending our Ferguson franchise was that we were spared all of the ICC crap! We only saw a few as chargeable repairs. After Sharp we went on to sell Toshiba. They were marvellous and we saw very few back for repair. We sold a load of the Philips 9752 21" Nicam sets (bought used but only a few years old) they were good with only a few lopt failures so when widescreen came out we went over to Philips widescreen sets.... least said the better ! By the time tube failures had become epidemic and the painter chip fiasco had germinated I had sold up and gone to run a car servicing garage! At the time VW used an ignition coil that looked suspiciously like a TX100 LOPT.... Guess what? They dropped like flies often splitting open and exposing the windings just like in the TX !