Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

Tractorfan · 23rd Nov 2009, 9:31 pm

Hi All,
When I was a kid my mum occasionally took me to Lewis's department store in Liverpool. I used to marvel at the escalators and it was the first time I saw a security closed circuit television camera. However, what stuck in my mind was that they seemed to have a type of mains socket I've never seen before or since. There were two twin gang sockets at the foot of every stone effect column and some in the ceiling too. The socket itself was a round pin affair with the earth pin much nearer the centre line than the usual BS546 sockets and I think it was the same size as the current carrying pins. The sockets were a circular bakelite insert about 2.5 to 3 inches in diameter on a metal oblong plate. They weren't Wylex or D&S but something quite different. The last time I visited Lewis's a lot of them had been changed to standard 13amp sockets.
It's sad, I know, but when it came to plugs & sockets I was quite observant as a ten year old

. Maybe a forum member was an electrician for Lewis's and has one in his or her bitbox

Cheers de Pete

ben · 24th Nov 2009, 1:58 am

Now that brings back memories. used to always go to Lewis's, and Blackler's! long gone now, sadly.
Are you sure the plugs aren't just the smaller of the BS546,as shown here? even as late as the '90s, these were still used at our uni hall of residence!

paulsherwin · 24th Nov 2009, 2:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tractorfan

it was the first time I saw a security closed circuit television camera.

We *are* talking about Scousers here Pete

More seriously, there were lots of nonstandard mains sockets around at the time you're talking about. The 13A mains socket rapidly became standard in commercial premises after WW2, but many buildings had separate ring mains for things like floor polishers and vacuum cleaners. It was considered desirable to keep these appliances off the 'standard' supply - maybe it still is.

Paul

Darren-UK · 24th Nov 2009, 2:52 am

I have misty recollections of things like this. As Paul says, I believe it was something to do with permitting certain applicances to be connected only to certain power points.

Mike Phelan · 24th Nov 2009, 10:00 am

Ben - your link doesn't seem to work; Wikipedia cannot find it.

julie_m · 24th Nov 2009, 10:46 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulsherwin

many buildings had separate ring mains for things like floor polishers and vacuum cleaners. It was considered desirable to keep these appliances off the 'standard' supply

I think the idea was to make sure that certain things -- tills, revolving display stands, the managing director's coffee maker -- would not be unplugged by cleaners in search of a power point, nor knocked offline if a malfunctioning Hoover or polisher blew a fuse in the distribution board.

Oh, and I've fixed the link to the BS546 plug pictures: Try this one.

ben · 24th Nov 2009, 11:18 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Phelan

Ben - your link doesn't seem to work; Wikipedia cannot find it.

hmm, dunno what happened - here it is

Mr Moose · 24th Nov 2009, 11:22 am

Hello,
MK still make BS546 plugs and sockets in 2A, 5A and 15A the 2A socket is here http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/en-GB/Pr...s/K770WHI.aspx
Yours, Richard

mikelect · 24th Nov 2009, 12:31 pm

I know the 15amp version of these plugs are still used in India and South Africa maybe a hangover from colonial days.

Mike

yesnaby · 24th Nov 2009, 12:41 pm

Hello,

Yes, I had a 15A one in South Africa, it seems to have gone missing now. I also had a 5A one (and wall socket) in the UK, will have a rummage, but I think that is lost as well.

Michael

cmjones01 · 24th Nov 2009, 1:16 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Moose

MK still make BS546 plugs and sockets in 2A, 5A and 15A the 2A socket is here http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/en-GB/Pr...s/K770WHI.aspx

BS546 plugs are still well-used for applications like switched lighting circuits. They have the advantages of being legal, distinctly different from normal 13A sockets so people don't plug other things into them, and *not* locally fused. This last one is important in applications like stage lighting where the plugs may be rather inaccessible, and every circuit is protected by a fuse at the dimmer anyway.

I've seen lots of modern 5A and 15A BS546 sockets in theatres, and 2A ones are common in window displays, sockets for standard lamps switched by the main light switch in hotel rooms, and the like.

Chris

bobsterkent · 24th Nov 2009, 2:15 pm

a friend of mine moved into a 4 year old flat and this had 2amp sockets fitted for standard lamps around the house, meant we had to change the plugs on his lamps before we could plug them in

Darren-UK · 24th Nov 2009, 3:26 pm

Following on from Chris in #11, you often see 3A and 5A fittings used for lamps and other ambience - related items in places like restaurants and public houses. Instances seem to be becoming more common, almost like a revival of what many would see as vintage or outmoded technology. I suppose an added advantage is that it gets around the irritation of people putting 13A fuses into 13A plugs regardless of what the correct rating should be.

McMurdo · 24th Nov 2009, 9:35 pm

We had Lewis's (Lewis Bros, later bought by Owen-Owen) here in Hanley as well (not to be confused with John Lewis) and I also remember non-standard 13A wall sockets, however our branch had the ones with Horizontal earth pin and vertical L&N which I think were made by Walsall.

Tractorfan · 25th Nov 2009, 9:14 pm

Hi All and thanks for your interest & replies.
True, Paul,- Scousers, eh?

I've had loads of experience with BS546 plugs & sockets (I've even got a box of 'em the cellar including a 16amp South African one and a 15amp wooden adaptor!) and the one's in Lewis's were definately not those.
The one's I'm thinking of had the N & L holes on the centreline of the circular bakelite plate and the earth hole (possibly the same diameter or smaller) was just a bit higher.
Just to add to the confusion, my primary school had a smaller version for the 100volt line speaker system in each classroom to distinguish it from the BS546 mains socket alongside.
Cheers de Pete

russell_w_b · 25th Nov 2009, 10:23 pm

Would this be what you remember?

Michael Maurice · 28th Nov 2009, 12:01 am

Slightly OT When travelling on the London Underground, I used to see different type of 13 Amp plug IIRC the earth pin was horizontal, and the live neutral were vertical.

Has anyone else seen these before?

Herald1360 · 28th Nov 2009, 1:16 am

Like these, perchance?

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...3&postcount=27

Chris

russell_w_b · 28th Nov 2009, 9:56 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maurice

'Has anyone else seen these before?'

Yes. They're Walsall gauge, and were used in the BBC extensively. We used them at transmitter sites for maintained bay and rack supplies - still do, in fact. Studios (someone will confirm, no doubt) used them for different applications.

We have a drawer-full of them at work. Our are non-fused. Just the sort of thing to put on your granny's kettle lead for an April Fool!

Jack Spark · 28th Nov 2009, 10:23 am

Its quite common for shops etc to use unusual sockets.
I did a couple of days recently installing seasonal tills for a well known retailer, all had unusual variations on the 13A socket. I asked my colleague why and he said that it is to stop the staff unplugging the till/chip n pin or other bit of kit and using the socket to charge their phone.

J

24th Nov 2009, 1:58 am	#2
ben Dekatron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Madrid, Spain / Wirral, UK Posts: 7,498	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Now that brings back memories. used to always go to Lewis's, and Blackler's! long gone now, sadly. Are you sure the plugs aren't just the smaller of the BS546,as shown here? even as late as the '90s, these were still used at our uni hall of residence! __________________ Regards, Ben.

24th Nov 2009, 2:52 am	#4
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool I have misty recollections of things like this. As Paul says, I believe it was something to do with permitting certain applicances to be connected only to certain power points.

24th Nov 2009, 10:00 am	#5
Mike Phelan Dekatron Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Near Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK Posts: 4,609	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Ben - your link doesn't seem to work; Wikipedia cannot find it. __________________ Mike.

24th Nov 2009, 11:22 am	#8
Mr Moose Octode Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gloucestershire, UK. Posts: 1,043	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Hello, MK still make BS546 plugs and sockets in 2A, 5A and 15A the 2A socket is here http://www.mkelectric.co.uk/en-GB/Pr...s/K770WHI.aspx Yours, Richard

24th Nov 2009, 12:31 pm	#9
mikelect Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Wrexham, North Wales, UK. Posts: 799	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool I know the 15amp version of these plugs are still used in India and South Africa maybe a hangover from colonial days. Mike

23rd Nov 2009, 9:31 pm	#1
Tractorfan Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.) Posts: 3,183	Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Hi All, When I was a kid my mum occasionally took me to Lewis's department store in Liverpool. I used to marvel at the escalators and it was the first time I saw a security closed circuit television camera. However, what stuck in my mind was that they seemed to have a type of mains socket I've never seen before or since. There were two twin gang sockets at the foot of every stone effect column and some in the ceiling too. The socket itself was a round pin affair with the earth pin much nearer the centre line than the usual BS546 sockets and I think it was the same size as the current carrying pins. The sockets were a circular bakelite insert about 2.5 to 3 inches in diameter on a metal oblong plate. They weren't Wylex or D&S but something quite different. The last time I visited Lewis's a lot of them had been changed to standard 13amp sockets. It's sad, I know, but when it came to plugs & sockets I was quite observant as a ten year old . Maybe a forum member was an electrician for Lewis's and has one in his or her bitbox Cheers de Pete __________________ "Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."

24th Nov 2009, 12:41 pm	#10
yesnaby Octode Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Newport, Gwent, UK. Posts: 1,623	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Hello, Yes, I had a 15A one in South Africa, it seems to have gone missing now. I also had a 5A one (and wall socket) in the UK, will have a rummage, but I think that is lost as well. Michael

24th Nov 2009, 2:15 pm	#12
bobsterkent Hexode Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Medway towns, Kent, UK. Posts: 271	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool a friend of mine moved into a 4 year old flat and this had 2amp sockets fitted for standard lamps around the house, meant we had to change the plugs on his lamps before we could plug them in __________________ "Oh yes I love television, all those wiggly lines"!

24th Nov 2009, 3:26 pm	#13
Darren-UK Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Posts: 4,061	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Following on from Chris in #11, you often see 3A and 5A fittings used for lamps and other ambience - related items in places like restaurants and public houses. Instances seem to be becoming more common, almost like a revival of what many would see as vintage or outmoded technology. I suppose an added advantage is that it gets around the irritation of people putting 13A fuses into 13A plugs regardless of what the correct rating should be.

24th Nov 2009, 9:35 pm	#14
McMurdo Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Staffordshire Moorlands, UK. Posts: 5,271	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool We had Lewis's (Lewis Bros, later bought by Owen-Owen) here in Hanley as well (not to be confused with John Lewis) and I also remember non-standard 13A wall sockets, however our branch had the ones with Horizontal earth pin and vertical L&N which I think were made by Walsall. __________________ Kevin

25th Nov 2009, 9:14 pm	#15
Tractorfan Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Frajou, l'Isle en Dodon, Haute Garonne, France.(Previously: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, UK.) Posts: 3,183	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Hi All and thanks for your interest & replies. True, Paul,- Scousers, eh? I've had loads of experience with BS546 plugs & sockets (I've even got a box of 'em the cellar including a 16amp South African one and a 15amp wooden adaptor!) and the one's in Lewis's were definately not those. The one's I'm thinking of had the N & L holes on the centreline of the circular bakelite plate and the earth hole (possibly the same diameter or smaller) was just a bit higher. Just to add to the confusion, my primary school had a smaller version for the 100volt line speaker system in each classroom to distinguish it from the BS546 mains socket alongside. Cheers de Pete __________________ "Hello?, Yes, I'm on the train, I might lose the signal soon as we're just going into a tunn..."

25th Nov 2009, 10:23 pm	#16
russell_w_b Dekatron Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK. Posts: 3,687	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Would this be what you remember? Attached Thumbnails __________________ Regds, Russell W. B. G4YLI.

28th Nov 2009, 12:01 am	#17
Michael Maurice Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wembley, Middlesex Posts: 7,224	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Slightly OT When travelling on the London Underground, I used to see different type of 13 Amp plug IIRC the earth pin was horizontal, and the live neutral were vertical. Has anyone else seen these before?

28th Nov 2009, 1:16 am	#18
Herald1360 Dekatron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Leominster, Herefordshire, UK. Posts: 16,535	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Like these, perchance? https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...3&postcount=27 Chris

28th Nov 2009, 10:23 am	#20
Jack Spark Retired Dormant Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London, UK. Posts: 47	Re: Strange plugs & sockets at Lewis's Liverpool Its quite common for shops etc to use unusual sockets. I did a couple of days recently installing seasonal tills for a well known retailer, all had unusual variations on the 13A socket. I asked my colleague why and he said that it is to stop the staff unplugging the till/chip n pin or other bit of kit and using the socket to charge their phone. J