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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

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Old 5th Oct 2016, 3:42 pm   #21
Panrock
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Default Re: Television in the car

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I'm interested in what type of aerials these were. Perhaps built into the windows with some sort of combiner and wide band pre-amp?
I've just had a peek online at what's on the market to do the job today and internal window mounting aerials do indeed seem to be the thing...

One type looks like a fat/flat dipole comprising multiple hoops (presumably so it will 'resonate' over a broad bandwidth) with the elements sealed in plastic, plus an amplifier, and the other type uses two short dipoles linked to an amp in a diversity configuration. These are for digital TV of course (not prone to ghosting) but I guess they would also have worked on analogue.

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Old 6th Oct 2016, 8:21 pm   #22
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Default Re: Television in the car

John Steed has one in his Bentley in the Avengers episode "A touch of brimstone". (A mock-up of presumably...)
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 8:37 pm   #23
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Default Re: Television in the car

I dont remotely recognise that set.
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 9:09 pm   #24
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Default Re: Television in the car

Steve, I'm thinking that the whole 'in car experience' of the 60s must have been a very hit and miss affair. In truth, the mere fact that you had a TV in your car was probably much important than how good or how useful it was. Although it was possible for it to be switched on - and viewed - whilst moving, like you say, there were/are many problems to be overcome in order to get a good, stable, interference free picture. For that reason I'm pretty sure that the set would probably have been viewed whilst parked up and off the main road, away from the interference of other cars. Other than that, talked and boasted about muchly. I reckon that's what it was about more than anything..
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Old 6th Oct 2016, 9:11 pm   #25
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Default Re: Television in the car

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John Steed has one in his Bentley in the Avengers episode "A touch of brimstone". (A mock-up of presumably...)
That's the mask from a Pye B18 or BV20.
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 6:40 am   #26
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Default Re: Television in the car

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Steve, I'm thinking that the whole 'in car experience' of the 60s must have been a very hit and miss affair. In truth, the mere fact that you had a TV in your car was probably much important than how good or how useful it was...
Indeed, especially in the days when even having a TV in the home was something to crow about.

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For that reason I'm pretty sure that the set would probably have been viewed whilst parked up and off the main road, away from the interference of other cars.
Yes, but not for too long! What did a TMB272 take in 12v mode? Guessing... 8 - 10 amps? And this was in the days of dynamo charging systems, so leaving the engine ticking over would not have helped that much.

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Old 7th Oct 2016, 7:38 am   #27
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Default Re: Television in the car

Thus making it even more useless, but that wouldn't stop people boasting about having a tele in their Bentley. Like I say, I think it was more about the notion than the effect.
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 8:24 am   #28
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Default Re: Television in the car

Now I've never owned a TMB272, but if I ever do - it seems the ideal source would be one out of a limousine. It would have been little used. I suspect I'm forty years too late to find one at the scrapper though...

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Old 7th Oct 2016, 11:55 am   #29
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Default Re: Television in the car

I don't know how sought after they are now Steve, but in my own time of collecting and restoring vintage TVs in the late 70s/early 80s, being a portable the TMB272 was not that high on most collectors' hit lists. I think most of us liked 'pretty' wooden sets not stuff that could be mistaken for a scope. Each to their own of course, and in truth it's not a bad looking set. As I said earlier, I had the TMB272 from Bud Flanagan's dressing room. I never did get around to restoring it - it was not a priority - and it got sold with most of my sets during my divorce settlement period in 1991. I'm not bitter though..
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 3:01 pm   #30
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Default Re: Television in the car

My TMB272 pulls 6-7A on 12v, less than a pair of 55w headlights. So presumably the electrics / dynamo would be sufficient, but best to view during the day before the chauffeur put the lights on!

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Old 7th Oct 2016, 3:37 pm   #31
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Default Re: Television in the car

That's if he can start the car!

Mind you, the only 'choice' during the day would have been the Test Card. Were any captains of industry and royalty Test Card enthusiasts?

Later on you could have viewed for longer on the likes of the portable 9-inch Sonys which, I think, took about 4 amps.

However, on the Sony (and also I expect the TMB272) the picture noticeably shrinks when the battery voltage goes down even slightly. So at least you'd be able to check out the 'width' castellations.

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Old 7th Oct 2016, 6:39 pm   #32
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Default Re: Television in the car

In the 60s at the weekends there were sports on TV; wrestling, scrambling, and others during the afternoon.
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 7:16 pm   #33
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Default Re: Television in the car

In my earlier post I mentioned a friends Audi A8 and someone asked about the aerial, I believe it was printed onto the screen and fed back to a tuner in the dash.
In regards the current consumption of the early Ekco TMB272 it would not have been a problem with fitments in cars like RR & Bentley as they usually had massive batteries and were equipped with the large Lucas C47 65 Amp dynamo compared with the puny 20 ish amps and small battery on your Morris 1000 or Ford Cortina. The large batteries and C47 was also specified in cars like Wolsey and Riley police cars to keep all their extra lights, radios and sirens running.
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Old 8th Oct 2016, 5:26 am   #34
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Default Re: Television in the car

Good point Chris. In any case, maybe when parked up the 'viewer' would have been using other facilities in the car such as internal lights, drinks, heater and the softly purring engine would have left on tickover (charging the battery). So not a problem. We're talking RR and Bentley after all.
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 12:27 am   #35
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Default Re: Television in the car

Chris,

Are you thinking of the early Lucas alternators? 2AC (1960) 55A, 10AC (1962) 35A 11AC (1962) 35A. These were all fitted to emergency services vehicles where the cost was justified by working needs and conditions and the 2AC was available to private customers as an after-market option. Luxury British cars began to be fitted with the 10/11AC from 1962 onwards and they could be specified for some less expensive cars too.

It was generally considered that simple dynamos were limited to a maximum of 45A by commutation problems. The attached table shows the C48 dynamo was rated at 35A and the C47 to 30A.

The RR Silver Shadow used a 12V version of the CAV AC5 alternator from the early 1960s but I don't have output data to hand. The corresponding 24V version is rated at 55A so the 12V type should manage at least 75A. At idling speed the alternator would give typically 2/3 of full rated output.

With a high output alternator, generally available from the early 1960s onwards, it would be quite practical to run high demand equipment such as a television set.

All this can be compared to modern car electrical systems where 120A alternators are not at all unusual.

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Old 9th Oct 2016, 12:47 pm   #36
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Default Re: Television in the car

I have not yet seen anyone post anything about adding a second battery. Early second battery systems has an extra contact in the mechanical regulator such as can be found in old canal boats. Later ones use a silicon diode the size of a pound coin or bigger.
That keeps enough power back to start the engine to recharge the telly battery. Modern 12 volt tellies have a battery protection circuit in them.
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 2:02 pm   #37
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Default Re: Television in the car

By 1961 the well to do owner of a Rolls or Bentley would have dumped his TMB272 or given it to one of the servants and bought a Pye TT1 or Ferguson 743T.
From post No. 40 of topic "First transistor TV in the UK" Started 12th July 2012.


Getting there. Even with the CRT heater drawing 0.3amp the total current consumption of this set is under 1.6amps from a 10.8volt supply. 17watts!
Compare that with a 14" all valve TV which can be as high as 160 watts.


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Old 9th Oct 2016, 2:46 pm   #38
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Default Re: Television in the car

For some reason that attachment doesn't work for me FERNSEH. Anybody else experiencing difficulties?

The other side of successful in-car vintage (eg. Band I or III) television reception was surely interference. Band I AM was notorious for plug lead interference and, given that the aerial would only be feet away from the engine compartment, even a well suppressed installation could have had problems. especially in weaker signal areas.

I had some experience of the difficulty in getting acceptable results in this department when attempting to get good reception on a VHF car radio in the early '70s. I'm going to start a new thread about early VHF car radios.

Steve
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 3:05 pm   #39
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Default Re: Television in the car

Interference would indeed have been a problem: I can remember the "rows of white dots" on 405-line VHF TV caused by a neighbour's son's Vespa scooter - he worked evening-shifts and so interfered with Coronation Street on his way to work.
And remember - VHF TV used AM sound too, so it would have been intrinsically more susceptible to ignition noise than VHF/FM in-car radio.

"Proper" VHF ignition suppression is tricky - look at the stuff used on the likes of the "FFR" military Land Rovers. A special metal-cased distributor/coil and copper-braid-covered HT leads.....
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Old 9th Oct 2016, 3:06 pm   #40
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Default Re: Television in the car

Hi Steve,
another shot at posting a picture of the working TT1

DFWB.
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