UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > General Vintage Technology > General Vintage Technology Discussions

Notices

General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 30th Jul 2020, 1:59 pm   #81
slidertogrid
Octode
 
slidertogrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 1,897
Default Re: State of repairs...

I do repair appliances where possible but there are exceptions. I replace my phone when the battery starts to fail rather than replace it this is usually at 4 or 5 years old. The new model is a great improvement on the old one so the cost is justified. The same with my laptop. The battery on my current one failed around a year ago so it has to be powered from the mains all of the time. I wouldn't buy a battery that wasn't OE as I have seen horror stories about cheap replacements catching fire. The cost of a new one isn't really economic so when the laptop develops another fault I will replace it with the latest model.
When I bought this one I was offered an extended guarantee at about half the cost of a new laptop. I declined saying that I would rather put the money towards a replacement as and when.. The shop assistant didn't like that! I think they make more money out of the guarantee than they do selling the computer!
Recently my Mum's 11 year old Bosh Fridge freezer developed a fault. the internal fan was running all of the time. ( I tried a manual defrost etc) On top of that the door handle had broken and had been glued.
I rang Bosh, £100 call out charge plus parts plus VAT. Door handle £38. Plus whatever was needed to repair the fan problem.
They could send an engineer in two weeks...
A new fridge freezer was £400 with a 5 year Guarantee plus £20 to take the old one away, delivered the next day.
Of course on the morning of delivery the fan on the original one stopped....
I told the delivery guy that the old fridge was now apparently working he just laughed and said that getting rid of the old ones was a real problem. They charge the customer £20 and it costs the firm £25. (This was a local independent retailer)
Yes I could have gone down the repair route at probably half the cost of a new one but I would still have had an 11 year old appliance with no guarantee on how long it would be before the next breakdown.
I do hate contributing to the environmental meltdown. But at least I made sure it had a metal back and wasn't made in China...
slidertogrid is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 2:06 pm   #82
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,385
Default Re: State of repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulcharlie View Post
If you lived in a block of flats or have a car, apparently these days you just walk away if you see smoke coming from an electrical appliance, when a simple electrical disconnection from socket in the flat or battery of a car could immediately prevent an inferno taking hold.
I keep a 10mm spanner velcro'd into the driver's door pocket of my car on the grounds that it may just save a fire, or even a life, one day. Stitch in time and all that. I did once spot someone dropping a too-long spanner across the battery terminals of their camper van, as everyone else gawped at the viciously spitting mishap next to fuel pipes, I grabbed a chunk of wood, reached in and beat it off as the weld deepened- the spanner had become blisteringly hot very quickly, as proven when I then went to pick it up.....
turretslug is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 3:12 pm   #83
Boulevardier
Octode
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bristol, UK.
Posts: 1,641
Default Re: State of repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
Recently my Mum's 11 year old Bosh Fridge freezer developed a fault. the internal fan was running all of the time. ( I tried a manual defrost etc) On top of that the door handle had broken and had been glued.
I rang Bosh, £100 call out charge plus parts plus VAT. Door handle £38. Plus whatever was needed to repair the fan problem.
They could send an engineer in two weeks...
A new fridge freezer was £400 with a 5 year Guarantee plus £20 to take the old one away, delivered the next day.
Fridge-freezers are particularly infuriating. They aren’t technologically complex, so should last a very long time and be readily repairable. I believe their “built-in obsolescence” frequently results from the type of foamed insulation used in the cabinet walls, which gradually deteriorates over time and allows in moist air from around the evaporator coils at the back of the cabinet. Freeze-thaw action then breaks up the insulation further and further, and you end up with blocks of ice in the insulation (that’s as far as I can understand the mechanism, anyway). This results in permanent blocks of ice and pools of melt-water inside the fridge. The insulation is built in structurally and can’t be replaced, so there’s nothing you can do about it except scrap the whole thing. Occasional problems with the running gear are understandable and repairable, but built-in terminal failure modes are unforgivable, especially when there are such dire consequences for land-fill, etc.
Mike

Last edited by Boulevardier; 30th Jul 2020 at 3:24 pm.
Boulevardier is online now  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 3:15 pm   #84
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
Default Re: State of repairs...

The point about remanufacturing parts is well made. There was a range of Toshiba LCD TVs a few years ago in which after a number of years service the mains power button extender broke from plastic fatigue. No problem, a new one at around £1 did the job. Then they ran out, so had to remake them. Which was fine, but now they were £20! Doubtless there were many switches shorted out...
It still amazes me that many people haven't heard of Freecycle (or equivalent). I'm often asked by a customer what to do with something I'm not interested in, say a cooker of fridge that's simply out of fashion. The mention of Freecucle gets a blank look. When I explain, I get the "oh, that's too much bother - I'll take it to the tip" response.
__________________
Glyn
www.gdelectronics.wales
Welsh Anorak is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 3:30 pm   #85
AC/HL
Dekatron
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 9,637
Default Re: State of repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerfulcharlie View Post
If you lived in a block of flats ... apparently these days you just walk away if you see smoke coming from an electrical appliance, when a simple electrical disconnection ...
That's because "they", whoever the relevant "they" are, can't formulate a simple rule encompassing all the situations and personalities that encounter all the problems. The default option is to avoid years and years of protracted legal bunfests and say leave it to the professionals. If it isn't in words of one syllable it's often debated until it's too late.

We, on the other hand, are free to risk assess our world and have ready responses carefully planned. Judging by the reactions here, we all have.
AC/HL is online now  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 3:45 pm   #86
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,799
Default Re: State of repairs...

I view repairing things as

A) Better than The Times crossword, as puzzles go
B) Lacking in the artificiality of most puzzles, though some failures do seem to have been planned
C) You usually get to keep something useful afterwards.... A prize! Yippee!

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 6:14 pm   #87
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: State of repairs...

Quote:
Part of me does get excited when something in our house breaks
Yes, keeps SHMBO happy, I should have said "kept" SHMBO happy as it is normal now. Still the same joy upon fixing with a less labourd request, now it's (almost) "Broken, fit it!" with the offending item placed before me, or led to it.

Joy, tool time!
 
Old 30th Jul 2020, 6:17 pm   #88
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: State of repairs...

Quote:
Better than The Times crossword, as puzzles go
Puzzles have been solved, where's the fun in that.
 
Old 30th Jul 2020, 7:54 pm   #89
The General
Hexode
 
The General's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, UK.
Posts: 329
Default Re: State of repairs...

I have a very good friend who used to run his own TV repair business.
I think you can see where this is going.....
He detests the throw away society which ruined the business he loved, & makes his views very clear on the subject, views which I also share.
Others have expressed here the satisfaction they get in repairing stuff & giving it a new lease on life. Me too. For my part, I would rather buy good quality older kit & refurbish it than spend oodles on new equipment which may well just be made in a sweatshop in China.
Most of my test equipment for example was high end in its day but I've spent the time (& money) on it to get it right & still ended up spending far less than the equivalent new items. And had a tremendous amount of satisfaction from doing so.
OK, some newer kit is better/faster than previous models (e.g. computers) but my vintage kit does everything I need for the jobs I do.

Mark
The General is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 8:45 pm   #90
mickm3for
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Chatham, Kent, UK.
Posts: 947
Default Re: State of repairs...

Hi most modern consumer electronics are not built to be serviced, in the days of Bush, Philips, Ferguson etc. the manufaturerer would issue service data, parts and help to the repair trade. This changed around I think the early 90's. Now the manufactures don't know how to connect their own products let alone how they work and it's becoming ever harder to even fit a part because of size, I have a radio PCB where the 5V supply resistor is o/c 5V one end 0V the other (had solder bridge) but part is 01005 SMD that is .4mm x .2mm how are we going to replace this without a microscope? It is not fun anymore.
mickm3for is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 8:54 pm   #91
Station X
Moderator
 
Station X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ipswich, Suffolk, IP4, UK.
Posts: 21,192
Default Re: State of repairs...

Surely stuff should be designed so that it never needs repairing during its lifetime? With electronic goods I think we're getting near to that. Stuff is much more reliable than it used to be, but I agree it's harder to fault find and repair.
__________________
Graham. Forum Moderator

Reach for your meter before you reach for your soldering iron.
Station X is online now  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 9:38 pm   #92
Joe_Lorenz
Hexode
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Hohenroda, Eastern Hesse, Germany
Posts: 451
Default Re: State of repairs...

Another example of repair friendly built appliances is our old washing machine. A year after our marriage - back in 1986 - we bought a brand new Constructa washing machine. Pretty expensive these days for a young couple and we decided to keep it well. Ten years later and as a family with two children we decided to buy a new machine as the old one would need to retire soon. A bit leaking and shaking, but still functional. So we kept it as a backup for the new one and for garden and work jeans and so on. Another ten years later it did not look nice any more and the bottom had developed rust holes from continously leaking a bit. One of my sons dismantled it and we found out the bottom was a fine object to teach a boy welding thin sheet metal. So we did. All components on the bench we opted for new bearings (standard ones, pretty ceap, easy job), overhauled the motor (bearings ok, collector on the lathe), a new belt was found in the garage as well as shock absorbers and at last the cabinet got a spray job in Audi Azoren Blue Metallic effect.
What shall I say? It is still working fine, no more leaks, and it does a job at least once a week.
Yes, the modern sister of her is computer controlled and much more energy and water efficient, but it will not go to the skip unless unavoidable.
Regards, Joe
Joe_Lorenz is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2020, 9:52 pm   #93
Radio Wrangler
Moderator
 
Radio Wrangler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fife, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 22,799
Default Re: State of repairs...

I get the impression the old Constructa may well outlive its replacement!

Steel from the cabinets of old 'white goods' is great for practicing welding.

David
__________________
Can't afford the volcanic island yet, but the plans for my monorail and the goons' uniforms are done
Radio Wrangler is online now  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 12:33 pm   #94
Uncle Bulgaria
Nonode
 
Uncle Bulgaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 2,315
Default Re: State of repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Station X View Post
Surely stuff should be designed so that it never needs repairing during its lifetime? With electronic goods I think we're getting near to that. Stuff is much more reliable than it used to be, but I agree it's harder to fault find and repair.
That leads me to think what a 'lifetime' is defined as. People here will be enjoying listening to radios 50 years later that the manufacturers were certain would be dumped in ten. I find much modern stuff has features that do nothing to improve the functionality of the device, but a lot that is harmful. Many modern mobiles have astonishing capabilities as far as measuring acceleration and accessing information go, but are pretty hard to have a conversation on, and require charging after a very short time.

There's so much emphasis on replacement from manufacturers, as that's their money-making model, that function and quality is only defined by a pursuit of 'more' rather than 'better'.

Joe_Lorenz's point about the washing machine still going, despite age is interesting too. I see in architecture that there is a narrow emphasis on 'energy in use' in buildings. This entirely fails to take embodied energy, or the cost of replacement into account. I would rather have a building with wood fibre insulation than Kingspan. On paper, the Kingspan is 'better' at being insulation, but that makes no allowances for disposal (the wood fibre can be composted) or the fact that it is made from a finite resource in environmentally damaging processes.

The washing machine has the hidden benefits of being repairable, and also intangible value as a means of father-son shared experience and satisfaction in the use of the hands and brain to solve an everyday issue without outside help or great cost.

Could the 'cradle to cradle' approach be taken to heart more in electronics? I'm sure there would be a role for the home repairer in that.
Uncle Bulgaria is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 1:22 pm   #95
Welsh Anorak
Dekatron
 
Welsh Anorak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
Default Re: State of repairs...

Playing devil's advocate here, so don't rush in!
We must remember that things might not be perceived as being built to last now, but if they were treated with the reverence reserved for such expensive items in (say) the Fifties that would last much longer. Think of a TV that was on for a couple of hours a day then and how long it lasted - say seven years. This would compare with around a year's use by an average viewer today. And said set will hopfully last around five years before needing service or replacement - how much service would our Fifties set have needed?
Similarly washing machines. Monday was once wash day - now machines in busy households are on every day. And look at the relative cost compared with forty years ago.
I agree mobile phones are awkward to use, but most aren't used for voice communication any more, and lead an amazingly hard life.
Manufacturers have decided that repair isn't feasible any more, so why bother allowing for it? It's in their interest to sell more things.
__________________
Glyn
www.gdelectronics.wales
Welsh Anorak is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 1:55 pm   #96
Guest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: State of repairs...

"Lifetime guarantee", if it goes wrong they come round and shoot you. Back on topic, I have a sat-nav with lifetime maps, not my lifetime but the units. This is specified as when it runs out of support, no date given.
 
Old 31st Jul 2020, 2:37 pm   #97
turretslug
Dekatron
 
turretslug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Surrey, UK.
Posts: 4,385
Default Re: State of repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
I have a sat-nav with lifetime maps, not my lifetime but the units. This is specified as when it runs out of support, no date given.
Ooh, that gets my goat, too! Essentially meaningless, could be six months hence. Especially annoying when it's because the roads are now rendered with smooth curves rather than "thru'penny bit" corners, so the files become unwieldy. I've got 1.5kg of grey matter to smooth out the bends between screen and biochemical actuators....
turretslug is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 2:44 pm   #98
MurphyNut
Heptode
 
MurphyNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Croxley Green, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 979
Default Re: State of repairs...

I would imagine the kind of people that subscribe to this forum are repairers by nature and probably quite a small percentage of the population.
Apart form saving a fortune I find it very enjoyable and satisfying fixing things, be it with old cars or domestic appliances. Most people can't be bothered or think it's too technical.
Admittedly older item are easier to fix than more modern with "built in obsolescence." But with the Eco friendly shift in our society we should be making thing's more lasting as less disposable.
__________________
Clive
MurphyNut is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 3:12 pm   #99
ThePillenwerfer
Octode
 
ThePillenwerfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,453
Default Re: State of repairs...

I enjoy repairing things, I certainly don't regard myself as a Collector of old wirelesses, telephones or whatever. When I've fixed them I've had my fun and it's time to move them on to liberate space, and money, for the next one.

I don't have the knowledge, skill or equipment to do very much with electronics but a lot of faults are simple things like dirty contacts in switches or potentiometers or breaks in cables where they enter the case. What galls me is the difficulty getting into so much modern kit to effect these repairs. One thing I have noticed is how the "Cheap Chinese rubbish" tends to be screwed together; in fact my experience is that such things may be cheap and Chinese but rarely rubbish.

Something else I've noticed is the attitude of "I'll have to get a new one" is trans-generational. I can understand younger people who have grown-up in the throw-away society but at the other end are people who seem to believe you've got to be a time-served specialist to do anything. For instance a few months ago I changed the battery in a watch belonging to a friend's eighty-nine-year-old Mother. She hadn't thought I could possibly do it and was amazed when I did as she thought such things could only be done my watch-makers or jewellers.
ThePillenwerfer is offline  
Old 31st Jul 2020, 3:32 pm   #100
TonyDuell
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 5,188
Default Re: State of repairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
Quote:
Better than The Times crossword, as puzzles go
Puzzles have been solved, where's the fun in that.
That applies to most puzzles. The Times crossword has been solved, if only by the person who set it.

Some 'repair' puzzles may not have been previously solved, at least not under the constraints applied (meaning most of us here can't do IC fabrication, we don't have the special tools, jigs, etc used in production). Even if they have, there is still the pleasure (at least for me) in getting something working again.

My parents taught me that the greatest joy comes from creating something (doesn't matter what it is). To be able to say 'That's mine, I made that'. I feel that restoring something, particularly a 'wreck' comes close.
TonyDuell is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:11 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.