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Old 26th Jul 2020, 11:31 am   #41
Skywave
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Arrow Re: State of repairs...

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. . . Much 'domestic electronics' is not made to be repairable at the component level: the fitment of surface-mounted components being one example.
Al.
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SM assembly is definitely fixable.
Yes, Such SM assy. is fixable - in a hobby or a mass-production factory environment, the latter where I have worked and have often done repairs to SM assys.

In my post I should have said:
". . . Much 'domestic electronics' is not made to be economically repairable at the component level by a typical small commercial trader: the fitment of surface-mounted components being one example.

Al.
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 11:58 am   #42
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Default Re: State of repairs...

Hi Al,
In the past I would have surely qualified myself and a few shops I worked for as a small commercial trader/s, we did ok with replacing the many SM Philips "painter" chips etal.
Where I started to come unstuck was with the advent of Ball Grid Array chips (BGA) and to an extent Lead free Solder. We would have needed much more expensive and sophisticated rework equipment than the Weller Pyropen that had previously sufficed, at this point I did bow out of the repair trade altogether.
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 12:02 pm   #43
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Default Re: State of repairs...

Spares available for 10 years, excellent, but will the manufacturer cost them at an affordable price. Somehow think they will be priced to make them unattractive.
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 12:10 pm   #44
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Default Re: State of repairs...

Hi Frank that is a good point.
CHS etc. ie, wholesalers often listed prices for say replacement LCD screens at circa two grand!!! I take it they were priced to put off repair, or more likely spares were not readily available but if someone was daft enough to pay this price for one then one could be pulled from a factory production line.
Yes, I know we could source them at more realistic prices elsewhere.
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 1:10 pm   #45
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Default Re: State of repairs...

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and you can learn from other people's mistakes, which is at least 20dB smarter than having to learn from your own
Agreed, no point re-inventing the square wheel.
 
Old 26th Jul 2020, 2:09 pm   #46
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Default Re: State of repairs...

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Hi Frank that is a good point.
CHS etc. ie, wholesalers often listed prices for say replacement LCD screens at circa two grand!!! I take it they were priced to put off repair, or more likely spares were not readily available but if someone was daft enough to pay this price for one then one could be pulled from a factory production line.
Yes, I know we could source them at more realistic prices elsewhere.
I rather suspect that the UK importer would put a few new sets aside and when needed would strip parts out, box 'em up and ship to whoever needed one, and the price could be set to cover the operation... most businesses want each aspect of their operation to be a 'profit centre' This would meet the terms of the law and make some money.

Law makers never understand how their produce affects markets. Markets evolve to get around them.

David
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 2:17 pm   #47
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Default Re: State of repairs...

Maybe David (RW) ?
Either way this seemed to cover the letter of the law rather than the spirit!, a case of unintended consequences methinks.
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 4:06 pm   #48
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Default Re: State of repairs...

Absolutely. LG and Samsung screens are available at around the same price as the complete TV. But, as you say, should you, or your insurance company insist, they could get one.
I still want a 32" LED screen for a Samsung. The usual set it was part of was around £300, but the customer's special limited edition TV was nearer £1000 and she's happy to pay to have it repaired. Unfortunately it's NLA - clearly they'd forgotten about their designer sets! We're still waiting....
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 4:26 pm   #49
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Default Re: State of repairs...

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Spares available for 10 years, excellent, but will the manufacturer cost them at an affordable price. Somehow think they will be priced to make them unattractive.
That, plus plenty of red tape and hoops to jump as to just how accredited and approved you are, and don't dare get accredited with a rival brand either. It won't be like the old days of a visit to the wee shop down a side alley from the high street where the guy behind the counter gets you the brushes for your vac' from round the back and gives you a few tips about the best way to go about it 'cos he's done it a thousand times himself.
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 4:55 pm   #50
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Default Re: State of repairs...

There is just one leetle teeny fly in their ointment....

Just wait until they refuse spares to someone they later need to sign off something of theirs......

Doesn't happen often, but it's justice of a sort.
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 5:00 pm   #51
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Default Re: State of repairs...

Some things _were_ made to be repaired.

I mentioned my Bryans XY plotter over in the 'success stories' section. The attached photo is of a plate attached to each of the motors in that unit detailing the carbon brushes and bearings fitted. I guess they were the most likely parts to wear out and need replacement. So you didn't replace even the entire motor, just the parts that needed it.
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Old 26th Jul 2020, 6:40 pm   #52
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Default Re: State of repairs...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
Spares available for 10 years, excellent, but will the manufacturer cost them at an affordable price. Somehow think they will be priced to make them unattractive.
That, plus plenty of red tape and hoops to jump as to just how accredited and approved you are, and don't dare get accredited with a rival brand either. It won't be like the old days of a visit to the wee shop down a side alley from the high street where the guy behind the counter gets you the brushes for your vac' from round the back and gives you a few tips about the best way to go about it 'cos he's done it a thousand times himself.
On Norwich market there is just such a wee shop down a back alley, stall crammed with spares, never let me down yet.

Peter
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Old 27th Jul 2020, 12:53 pm   #53
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Default Re: State of repairs...

That kind of spares shop is probably exactly what the powers that be had in mind with the legislation. I don't know if it's possible to create that sort of market from the top down, but I sincerely hope it is! There is some resurgence of Repair Cafes and 'The Repair Shop' but with the demise of Maplin it's not like anyone can go to a shop and get advice and a paper bag of parts from an assistant in a brown coat!

I've been able to do that at one place, which was Bardwell's in Sheffield. When I was a student there about 2011 they were still going, but have since retired.
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Old 27th Jul 2020, 8:12 pm   #54
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Default Re: State of repairs...

This is in no way aimed at any particular grouping of legislators/ bureaucrats/ politicians but it's a feature of life that the more power you think that you yield, the more you will be leaned on by multi-national lobbyists and others with big money and real power to swing legislation in their favour, with favourable PR fluffiness about eco-ness, safety, reliability etc.. The spares-for-ten-years sounds great, but the actuality will have loads of strings attached.

In the meantime, I'll continue to be impressed and gratified by forum members' accounts of ingenuity and persistence at solving otherwise "BER" quandaries with an eclectic array of devices, whether from last year, 40 years or 80 years ago.

There'll always be under-the-radar work for the handy odd-job person- my sister's chartered engineer partner sliced through the cable of his hedge-trimmer within moments of starting to use it, another time nailed through not one but three heating pipes when attempting to cure creaking floorboards- each time, it was me who got the worried phone call about doing a favour sharpish....
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 7:43 pm   #55
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Default Re: State of repairs...

It can be that the C.Eng knows what his time is worth?
Many professionals need help to cover the small stuff. I don't put tyres on my own car.

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Old 28th Jul 2020, 8:14 pm   #56
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Default Re: State of repairs...

Precisely! I always look at the 'time-cost' of doing stuff, and appreciate that - the older I get - the higher the value I must place on every hour of my remaining life. To the point where I'm happy to pay an electrician for an hour of his labour to come in and replace a couple of sockets and a ceiling-rose because that buys me an hour in which I can do something I *want* to do rather than something I _have_ to do. [and if he screws-up it's his liability-insurance that gets to pay-out].

OK, some people enjoy doing certain things and so the 'time-cost' needs to be offset by the enjoyment-derived. Each according to his/her tastes. But always think "If I wasn't doing this, what else could I be doing that would bring me greater pleasure?"

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Old 28th Jul 2020, 8:33 pm   #57
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Default Re: State of repairs...

Anyone got "chapter and verse" re 10 years spares availability? Reason I ask is I was quite prepared to pay for a mechanical part a few weeks ago and contacted the company who said "ain't got none". I did an online search which suggested there was no legal liability to stock any spares for any specific period.

And here's the rub: I had to modify an existing part to do the job and stupidly had an accident with my reciprocating saw, thereby needing 3 stitches in my thumb and needing to isolate myself in the shed at the bottom of the garden for 3 weeks. Yes, very stupid accident and totally unfair on SWMBO but... spares?
Graham
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 8:36 pm   #58
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Default Re: State of repairs...

It was the "I broke it- now I'm walking away and expect a favour while I watch the footie" attitude that I found objectionable. No nationality, no pack drill....

The point is that I'd expect someone described as any sort of "engineer", chartered or otherwise, to have had the wherewithal not to have done either of those things in the first place.

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Old 28th Jul 2020, 10:05 pm   #59
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It was the "I broke it- now I'm walking away and expect a favour while I watch the footie" attitude that I found objectionable.
I feel your pain and I wonder what to say or what to think...
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 10:27 pm   #60
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Default Re: State of repairs...

It's curious how there is such a wide spread of inclination amongst the broad engineering fraternity- I regard plumbing almost as an artistic pastime, the challenge of nested, symmetric polished curves and avoidance of elbow fittings becomes a point of honour! Equally, I'll look for a metalwork challenge even if it isn't strictly necessary. Others have multi-million pound civil engineering projects under their belt, yet shrink from fitting a 13A plug. Perhaps it's a good thing that there is such a complimentary "horses for courses" that achieves the overall aim.

BTW, remedying the dripping ceilings did at least earn several cuppas during and a good curry afterwards!
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