State of repairs...

It is also fun and educational to fix something, beats wasting time looking at the goggle box. I will give an hour or so trying to fix anything, if I don't manage a repair it was an interesting exercise anyway.

[Skywave]

Originally Posted by Peter.N.

It's a lot to do with wealth. . . . items are relatively cheap to replace and it's often cheaper to do that than repair, largely due to labour costs.
Peter

That is the key point of this 'non-repair' issue. Plus the fact that so much 'domestic electronics' is not made to be repairable at the component level: the fitment of surface-mounted components being one example. But using such enables manufacturers to use machine build and assembly, thus keeping costs down (minimal expensive manual work) and, it turn, that produces a cheaper item to the buyer than would have been the case otherwise.

"It's a lot to do with wealth": exactly.

Al.

[Uncle Bulgaria]

Of course, the wealth that is being disregarded here (as turretslug said) is the rest of the earth. As the components and objects get made ever more cheaply, using more and more resources, they become harder to repair because they use self-tappers into moulded plastic casings and other parts where if they snap they need serious remedial work, which often is hard to justify except on moral anti-waste grounds. The thing will eventually become plastic landfill anyway, so it's always a losing battle against a tide of rubbish.

I'm working on a clothing line at the moment, and trying to come up with a method of guarantee which enables the clothes to be returned for repair, and how to cost that up. I don't think I'm being romantic when thinking that retaining local employment in valued labour creating objects rather than office drone-work does lead to more self-worth and community cohesion.

Beardyman's experience of 'what goes around comes around' in the good things that came from being able to repair objects for others makes it seem more of a shame how many don't know the satisfaction of bringing a machine or device back to life.

is not made to be repairable at the component level: the fitment of surface-mounted components being one example

I disagree, surface mount is not difficult to deal with, I would rather replace a 100 pin (make that any number of pins more than two) SM chip than a through hole version. All it takes is a bit of experience and lack of fear. I happily make PCBs at home with 0.5mm pitch SM pads (that's 1/4 mm gaps) and solder the chips on. The tricky/interesting bit is designing the board without too many vias!

[Red to black]

Agreed, SM assembly is definitely fixable, what isn't is custom firmware and where "house codes" for devices are used along with no service information and/or circuit description available.

[G6Tanuki]

I'm fairly relaxed about the whole 'repair' thing - am quite happy to replace rather than repair, specially if the new one is faster/lighter/has more features/uses less energy/doesn't have scratches/dents like the old one.

[Of course, buying a replacement then allows me to dismantle - in my own time, for entertainment - the failed-thing to learn about the failure, without there being any pressure on me to do the dismantling in a 'kind' way. because I have no need or expectation of having to put it back together again]

[Colourstar]

As a lifelong screwdriver jockey my heart really sinks when I see that the likes of B&Q now stock light fittings fitted with 'non-replaceable LED light sources' ... I mean... really? When the LED(s) fails, you discard the entire fitting. Surely that takes user non-repairability to a new level. How on earth can they be permitted to sell such appallingly wasteful things?

Rant over!

Steve

[red16v]

Here’s a link which is highlighting a future direction. No anti/pro brexit comments please, I post only for information.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49884827

[TonyDuell]

That actually is the main reason why I've not installed LED lighting in my house (the DIY sheds are not the problem here, many LED light fittings from just about any supplier can't he (officially) repaired). I don't mind reaching up to the light every year or couple of years to change a 'bulb' (which included CFLs, LED replacement units, etc). But if I have to chane the entire fitting it means turning off the mains, re-drilling the ceiling, probably decorating (as the replacement won't be the same as the old one). As the lifetime of these fittings seems to be only 5-10 years, that is not acceptable to me.

As regards repairs, I try to repair everything. If something breaks, no matter how cheap it is to replace, I take it apart and have a go. Most of the time I am successful (even if I have to redesign things to use parts I can get).

If the mods will indulge me for a moment, I've never learnt to drive, but my late father had a car. The only thing we couldn't do ourselves was the air conditioning. But anything else we did. Neighbours were amazed to see us (mostly me) take the steering rack apart, remove the transmission, or whatever.

Obviously anything electrical/electronic in the house is going to get repaired if I can. But then I don't have that much other than my vintage radios, computers, tape recorders, etc and those I repair because it's FUN. But I also do clocks, film cameras, things like that.

I was once asked if there was anything I wouldn't attempt to repair myself. I thought for a moment and said 'Yes, actually there is. My cat.'

[AC/HL]

Please bear forum rules in mind if commenting on the two previous posts

'Yes, actually there is. My cat.'

Cats and most living things are self repairing to a great extent if looked after, could be the way to go.

[Radio Wrangler]

Actually, I have helped repair a cat.

Vet was injecting a stable cat. Cat jumped and snapped off part of the needle inside him. Vet struggled for a while trying to keep tabs on the end of the needle inside that cat. I got asked to have a try to work it out, I'm ambidextrous and have pretty good dexterity (a daft way of putting it) I managed to feel the needle, identify the sharp end and work it out. A more difficult task than it might at first seem, given the cat's opinion of the proceedings. No harm done and the moggy was fine for many years.

As far as our sort of stuff goes the BBC report seems to only be about white goods.

David

[Ed_Dinning]

Hi Ron, lots of Meccano on ebay, some very pricey, but the tatty stuff quite cheap.
By some for old times sake and perhaps interest a young person.

Ed

[kevinaston1]

A few years back, one of my technicians enrolled on a VCR service course at the local tech (remember them?)

The students were puzzled that the course did not cover the power supply, since that was where most of their faults were to be found.

The lecturer explained to them that health and safety dictated he was not permitted to touch on the subject of circuitry connected to the mains, so the power supply parts could not be included.

Our workshop used to have numerous from health and safety; my staff had it drilled into them. "No sir, we never work on a unit with the covers off and power applied".

[Uncle Bulgaria]

It seems there are two strands: manufacturer quality reticence/growth-based capitalism requiring more, new, faster, 'better' at the cost of pollution and raw material use; and governmental conflation of commendable safety regulations with a desire to remove all possible risk.

The latter in particular means that young people have their 'homo faber' instincts gradually eroded by constant assumption that such and such is dangerous, or impossible.

I'm reminded of that film 'WALL-E' where the humans have become so bloated and incompetent that all they can do is float around on couches being fed entertainment.

There has to be some sweet spot between protecting workers' precious bodies so they don't get sucked into mill machinery, and requiring that devices are made as much as possible in such a way that they are intelligible and repairable, and encouraging people to take advantage of this to repair them.

I read an article about the Amish in America, and how they're not Luddites but that each community discusses whether to adopt a certain technology and decides based on the harm they consider it would do to interpersonal relations. While one group might think electric light is beyond the pale, another might have machine tools.

It strikes me that in our pursuit of share-price increase, we don't have those discussions and it's left to us skip-pickers to howl at the moon about how the technological imperative leaves behind human considerations.

[nutteronthebus]

This reminds me of Frank Zappa song Flakes (All what we got here's American made
It's a little bit cheesy, but it's nicely displayed
Well, we don't get excited when it crumbles 'n breaks
We just get on the phone and call up some Flakes
They rush on over and wreck it some more
And we are so dumb, they're linin' up at our door)

[John10b]

During my working life I was involved with Apprentice Training (AT), sadly however when ever there were cut backs the first thing to go was the AT, I tried to argue the case to retain the AT but it fell on deaf ears.
Today in my retirement I find great pleasure in introducing my grandchildren to engineering in my shed (workshop), from basic nails and screws, hacksaw, jigsaw, drills, soldering etc etc. The magic of magnetism and loudspeakers etc etc I could go on but you all know what I mean.
I’m not sure what the future holds for our youngsters but there are some very bright ones out there.
John

[Radio Wrangler]

Digging into something to fix it is also an interesting exploration into how things work and how they are made. You can learn what sorts of things to avoid the next time you really do have to buy a new one.

As a designer, I quite like looking at other people's work. You can learn new tricks or feel more comfortable about the way you've been doing things, and you can learn from other people's mistakes, which is at least 20dB smarter than having to learn from your own

David

[slidertogrid]

Reading that article stating spares must be available for 10 years reminds me of a VCR we had for repair in the 80s or 90s at my shop. It was a Ferguson front loader top range model but not the usual 3V23 type thing. I think it was an early HI FI machine. I don't think it sold in huge numbers as I hadn't seen one before.
Anyway we did the repair and ordered a replacement door / flap for it. We had a letter back stating that the part was no longer available. We informed the customer who was annoyed and said "we will see about that"!
Some time later a replacement arrived from Ferguson. I am sure it had been removed from a machine as it wasn't in the usual packing.
When the customer came to collect it I asked him what he had done. He stated that he was a solicitor and had written to Ferguson quoting the law regarding spares availability which I think he said was seven years at the time.
It certainly did the trick.
I made a mental note for future reference...

[Refugee]

Those plastic doors do cover the controls that are not used every day but they sure break easily.