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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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4th Aug 2020, 9:13 am | #1 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Spalding, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
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Guided weapon coloured blue
Moderators, please move if in wrong section.
Back in the early 70s a local scrapyard who occasionally bought from the MoD had some missile type material he bought in. Just bits and pieces of what remained. Quite a few lorry loads though.The metalwork was a powder blue iirc. Bits I had, but long disposed of included red anodised aluminium assemblies, smaller than your hand and I was told these were part of the detonator system, hence red. There was also various electronic sub assemblies. These were mostly made as a quadrant type casting about 2" thick and radius of 6 to 8 inches. I assume to fit 4 into the round weapon casing. All I remember is some square Texas black and gold power transistors and some disc tantalum capacitors the size of a 1p coin approx. The dealer found that if he threw these on a fire, they exploded and he said there was a solid silver disc inside. He was into precious metals as well. Anyone any ideas what this weapon was called? I assume maybe 50s or 60s, as it was scrap when I saw it inthe 70s. Rob
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4th Aug 2020, 9:29 am | #2 |
Heptode
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Marlborough, Wiltshire, UK.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
Blue steel and blue streak were both missile projects from that era. Missiles were commonly painted light blue to blend with the underside of the carrying aircraft. Test torpedoes were also pale blue so that is a remote possibility, though they are much more heavily built than missiles.
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4th Aug 2020, 9:59 am | #3 |
Moderator
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Location: Oxford, UK
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
Blue Streak does fit the chronology, though the military version was cancelled in 1960 and it was a very big rocket to turn up in a civilian scrapyard. Nevertheless, the security aspects may have encouraged the MOD to hang onto the bits for a decade (it was designed to carry large 1950s British nuclear warheads).
Parts of Blue Streak were used in the Black Prince civilian launcher programme which lasted until 1971. |
4th Aug 2020, 11:34 am | #4 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Spalding, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 2,851
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
Thanks both.
I must admit, blue steel is the name I seem to remember, but it seems a lot bigger than the remains that I saw back then. Mind you, it was all pieces of metal and the sub assemblies. Being used on V bombers fits in well with Lincolnshire where I live. I remember him telling me about when he bought a load of huge bomb trollies from not far away. Waddington or Scampton? They required several days work cutting up. Evidently they had a valuable metal the bearings were made of. On the third day, he didn't bother signing in. He had just started work when he found himself surrounded by armed police. He talked his way out of it. That was Ron for you. Another tender was for mostly the swept up remains of a harrier that crashed whilst hovering. Very small parts of debris I seem to recall. Finding the occasional 4cx250 in his yard was a rare occurrence, but did happen. As well as the electronic gear, some tenders were of scrap kitchen equipment. One lot from RAF Cranwell had some half decent MoD spec pans. To this day, I still have a lovely 12" diameter heavy aluminium frying pan, complete with broad arrow and 1952 date stamp. Rob
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Apprehension creeping like a tube train up your spine - Cymbaline. Film More soundtrack - Pink Floyd Last edited by CambridgeWorks; 4th Aug 2020 at 11:36 am. Reason: Spelling |
5th Aug 2020, 9:50 am | #5 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.
Posts: 1,043
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
Hello.
I think the Vulcan bomber used the T4188 transmitter ( http://www.radiomuseum.co.uk/T4188.html ) which uses a pair of CV2519 (4X150A) valves. Yours, Richard |
5th Aug 2020, 12:00 pm | #6 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Somerset, UK.
Posts: 2,129
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
Inert or practice military munitions are sometimes coloured blue. Non functional artillery shells are coloured blue, these are used to practice loading and transport drills without risk of accident.
Blue coloured replica handguns are used by the police and the armed forces to practice operations like disarming an armed criminal. Blue replicas are of the exact same weight as a real weapon, unlike lightweight replicas intended for display or stage use. |
6th Aug 2020, 9:12 am | #7 |
Octode
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Carmel, Llannerchymedd, Anglesey, UK.
Posts: 1,498
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
The gunnery range at Lulworth was an excellent source of OC35's and sealed can relays back in the 60's. I think they came from wire-guided devices.
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7th Aug 2020, 2:31 pm | #8 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Spalding, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
Post#6
Is it likely, if practice weapons, they would have had virtually everything apart from an explosive warhead. I suppose as practice they would have been functional in all other respects apart from actually exploding. I certainly saw a lot of scrap metal back then. I even had some parts in my garage, but they went years ago. I just wish I had kept some. I seem to have kept a great deal of other stuff I am unlikely to need! Rob
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8th Aug 2020, 8:14 am | #9 | |
Rest in Peace
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
Quote:
At that time, shells were exploded after a preset flight time by a mechanical timer, something like a watch movement. A spinning shell is a harsh environment for clockwork, and the design then still in use had been copied from an unexploded German shell during WW1. It’s strange that even in the 60s a new mechanical solution (essentially a watch movement) was being sought. Ferranti’s developed a 60,000 rpm spinner to test their designs. Testing in an actual shell was performed at a vertical recovery range, where the shell was fired almost vertically from an Abbot self-propelled gun. Eventually, the shell fell back to earth, base first, and could be recovered for examination. At the time, I felt guilty about being involved in weapon’s development, if only as a writer. Sorry, mods, if this is too far off-topic. Please delete some or all as you think necessary. Roger |
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8th Aug 2020, 9:36 am | #10 |
Dekatron
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Location: Penrith, Cumbria, UK.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
The booster stage of the Blue Streak rocket is on display at RAF Spadeadam, but it's silver. Maybe the warhead was painted blue?
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8th Aug 2020, 10:12 am | #11 |
Nonode
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Spalding, Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
I don't recall seeing larger "rocket engine" style parts. Just some curved blue aluminium pieces and the cast aluminium chassis section sub assembly with electronics. Plus various stainless steel looking pipes and parts.
I have in recent years bumped into the scrapyard owner's son about once a year out shopping, so will definitely ask him as he worked with his (now deceased) dad at the time in question. Rob
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8th Aug 2020, 11:16 am | #12 |
Moderator
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
It's possible the missiles were Blue Steels, which was a standoff delivery system for the V bomber force in use until Polaris came on stream in 1970. These are just guesses though. Presumably the MOD partially disassembled classified weapons before sending them for scrapping to make them difficult to identify.
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8th Aug 2020, 11:21 am | #13 |
Heptode
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire, UK.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
I remember when I was little looking up at a Vulcan bomber flying over the school playground. The Blue Steel under the body was a definate dark colour although I cannot be 100% that it was blue.
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8th Aug 2020, 12:46 pm | #14 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
You'd have seen what was visible to any passing Russian military attaché. I.E. whatever was allowed in the public domain at the time. The MOD aren't cavalier about disposal of weapons, and it's doubtful if anything dangerous or secret would be entrusted to the average scrappy in modern times. I have seen old drop tanks in a scrapyard in the past.
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8th Aug 2020, 6:56 pm | #15 |
Heptode
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire, UK.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
While I can obviously believe that anything that was top secret would be behind closed doors you would maybe be surprised at the amount of little facts that creep out locally from these places. They were vigilant though as I remember when out bushbeating. Security resulted in a visit everytime the guns were adjacent to the local major V bomber base. It was not banned but they did check.
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8th Aug 2020, 10:51 pm | #16 |
Hexode
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Weeting, Norfolk.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
I have some cavity oscillator telemetry transmitters that were recovered from an incomplete Black Knight rocket. The seller was a radio amateur who found them in a midlands scrapyard in the 1970's. The lower half was present minus the engine and was in a crushed state. I don't know how long it remained there, but such hardware certainly found its way into civil scrapyards.
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8th Aug 2020, 11:57 pm | #17 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
Black Knight was never a weapon though, so disposal wouldn't have been so sensitive. Most were launched in Australia, but at least one was fired from the Isle of Wight.
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9th Aug 2020, 10:39 am | #18 |
Rest in Peace
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chandlers Ford Hampshire
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Re: Guided weapon coloured blue
I don't think that the names of these missiles were related to their colour. It's more likely that they were named using the rainbow code.
In the late 50s I was working as a draughtsman at Ferranti's during the development of Bloodhound, a surface-to-air missile. This had started life as Green Sparkler, followed by Blue Envoy, which was scrapped. Blue Envoy design features were then used in Red Duster, whose name was changed to Bloodhound. The names of air-to-air missiles probably followed a similar path. As suggested by others, the actual colours used on missile casings were more likely functional, to provide camouflage etc. Roger Last edited by LeakyGrid; 9th Aug 2020 at 10:41 am. Reason: spelling |