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Vintage Telephony and Telecomms Vintage Telephones, Telephony and Telecomms Equipment |
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3rd May 2020, 5:57 pm | #1 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leicester, UK.
Posts: 1,433
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GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Hi all,
I picked up this rather battered 232 phone today with the attached bell box, I believe they're known as the King pyramid. First inspection was that it looked complete but has obviously taken a hard drop at some point. The bottom section has faced damage. The main phone body is okay other than the screw moulding that holds the dial mechanism in place. I filed down some bakelite and mixed the powder with epoxy to rebuild this part which is currently curing. The dial mechanism was loose and looks to have been pulled out as the three wires that connect to terminals 4, 5 and 6 in the phone body are all detached. In the bottom circuitry there is a loose wire from the capacitor, I presume this goes to the coil for the ringer? If anyone can help with the initial wiring problems then that would be great. I'm not sure which colours should go to 4 5 and 6 from the dial mechanism. Only 5 and 6 actually go to the lower phone circuitry, 6 goes to the coil and red cable on the handset. 5 is blue and goes straight to the coil. Also the dial mechanism itself has two wires loose but I presume that these go blue, grey, brown, pink and orange from left to right. I've tried looking for a schematic but I can't find one for this type, only the stand alone 232 which looks to be different. Hopefully this will make a nice example, I have a few bakelite phones but have never done anything with them before so this is something new to me really. |
3rd May 2020, 6:08 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Biggin Hill, London, UK.
Posts: 5,208
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
That's odd.... I wouldn't have expected the induction coil to be on the bell set chassis. In a normal 232 it's in the main part of the telephone.
I have a couple of Telephone 232's with the Bell Set 26 screwed on the bottom. They are a normal 232, a normal Bell Set 26 and a short 3 core cable to link them. There are 3 N diagrams that apply : N332 for the Telephone 232 N526 for the Bell Set 26 N4300 for how to connect them. I would start with those and see if you can relate them to your telephone (which will be different). Incidentally, the wires on the back of the dial go in the order Blue, Slate (grey), Brown, Pink, Orange. That is the case in every ex-GPO telephone I've ever worked on, and even some Australian, etc, ones. I was taught the nmemonic : 'Bill Said B****r (the) Post Office' to remember this. |
3rd May 2020, 6:28 pm | #3 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Is the 'phone definitely a 232? The 162 is an earlier "pyramid" 'phone that requires an external induction coil, but externally looks like a 232. A shot of the innards might help.
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3rd May 2020, 7:29 pm | #4 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leicester, UK.
Posts: 1,433
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Thanks for the replies both, I found it unusual to have the coil in the bell box too as I can't find any photos similar online. I have attached a picture of the internals of the main phone unit. Currently it is stripped somewhat but all that is missing is the dial mechanism and the four wires which go to the bell box. There is also no sign of any coil being previously fitted into the main phone unit.
Also the wires to the bell box are actually fed through holes drilled in the top of the bell house casing so there are no wires connecting the phone and bell box externally and the handset cable goes to the bell box directly leaving the hole at the rear of the pyramid casting free from any cables. The coil in the bell box looks to be an original fitment too, it's all too neat for this to be done by someone by the looks of things. |
3rd May 2020, 9:19 pm | #5 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
Posts: 707
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Quote:
When it comes to the telephone. It definitely isn't a GPO Tele 232 as the 'terminal' block/switch set is missing terminals 7 and 8. It is also missing its Induction Coil No 27 (No 24 on earlier models). The Telephone No 162 also had an Induction Coil as well as there being one in the Bellset No 25 - appears to be missing from this telephone. The circuit diagram of a Tele 162 and a Bellset 25 is diagram No N4200 http://www.samhallas.co.uk/repositor...4000/N4200.pdf The GPO never drilled a hole in the top of a bellset to connect it to the telephone - the connection was done with a 'Cord 3/74 9inch' which came out of the rear of the telephone and went into the cord entry on the bellset which was normally on the LH side of the telephone. I've bought a couple of genuine original ones on eBay recently. Someone does produce repro ones on eBay - note they were never a plaited cord as another seller produces. The term 'king pyramid' is a modern tern - never heard it used during my days wit the GPO in the 1950/6's. First heard it in the early 1990's . Last edited by Pellseinydd; 3rd May 2020 at 9:39 pm. |
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3rd May 2020, 10:56 pm | #6 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leicester, UK.
Posts: 1,433
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Yes I agree that it does look like a bit of a Frankensteins monster. The capacitor on the bell set is secured by a capacitor clamp. The base of the unit does have a stamping on, actually it has two but one is so rubbed and blurry that I can't make sense of what it is but attached is a picture. There is no markings or diagrams anywhere else, trying to identify it is a complete mystery.
The terminal strip in the phone looks identical to a 162 so maybe it was a 162 that has been butchered a little. This phone has obviously been like this for a long time as it was seized up and quite dusty and corroded. Still, I'm not going to give up on it and I'm going to look for spare parts to put it right. |
3rd May 2020, 11:30 pm | #7 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Quote:
One of the problems these days is that unless the phone hasn't been touch since in service, it can have had parts changed. |
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4th May 2020, 12:01 am | #8 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leicester, UK.
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Thanks for the help in identifying it! That printing is on the base of the bell unit so I presume that these two parts would have been together from new? I just need to find some photos of the internals of the ATM brand bell set and see what differences there are, or are they likely to be identical to a GPO equivalent?
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4th May 2020, 11:19 am | #9 | |
Heptode
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Flintshire, UK.
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Quote:
My telephone is also the AT&E equivalent of a GPO Tele 232 except for the 'ATM' logo in the oval on the handset and no other markings/diagram inside. I've kept it that way to use with one of my AT&E Strowger PAXs. |
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29th Jul 2020, 9:33 pm | #10 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leicester, UK.
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Hi all,
Well this phone was put to one side for a few months, having to find a replacement transformer for the phone proved rather difficult and took nearly two months to source one. I've now replaced the dial mechanism with a nice example, the original was badly corroded and seized solid so I found a nice one to replace it. The transformer has also been fitted and I have also sourced a replacement ATM branded handset to go with it. The photos show what state it is in now, which is a lot better than it was a few months ago. The final parts to sort is the bakelite cover for the bellset which needs a replacement due to a hairline crack, I'm not too bothered about this so it can wait for now. More importantly I need to find the correct terminal board that fits in the bell set and then start work making the bell set look right. I've really became fond of this little 162 after doing so much work and hours contacting almost every restorer in the UK to find a replacement transformer! I think I'm going to use it as the main landline phone as after all the trouble I think it deserves pride of place. Two photos attached showing the upper part of the phone, minus bellset. Hopefully it won't be much longer before it is all back together again! |
30th Jul 2020, 3:00 am | #11 |
Octode
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
If you asked for an anti-sidetone transformer on here I'm sorry I missed it as I've got one.
I have an ATE T3903, see https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=137438, and on that the housing for the bell is just a skirt with no top. |
30th Jul 2020, 10:05 am | #12 |
Octode
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Leicester, UK.
Posts: 1,433
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
No I didn't ask on here, maybe I should have as it could have saved me a lot of trouble From how hard it was to find one I suggest you hang onto it if you repair a lot of phones, most of my enquiries were dead ends!
Interesting that the bottom part of your model is more a rim than an actualy bell set cover, I wonder if that was originally due to the magneto being fitted between the two? All of my phone casings are marked with the same stamping as yours which suggests that they originally went together, quite interesting as to how many variants there are of these models. |
31st Jul 2020, 9:14 am | #13 |
Dekatron
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
I was going to buy a bellset for my 200 series phone until I realised that the wire connecting the two seems to run externally between them. Is that right?
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Paul |
31st Jul 2020, 10:03 am | #14 |
Hexode
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK.
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
yes that is correct it comes out of the rear of the phone and into the side of the bellset
but it is only a short lead |
31st Jul 2020, 10:13 am | #15 |
Tetrode
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Caernarfon, Gwynedd, UK.
Posts: 51
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
As Pellseinydd explained further up in this thread
"The GPO never drilled a hole in the top of a bellset to connect it to the telephone - the connection was done with a 'Cord 3/74 9inch' which came out of the rear of the telephone and went into the cord entry on the bellset which was normally on the LH side of the telephone. I've bought a couple of genuine original ones on eBay recently. Someone does produce repro ones on eBay - note they were never a plaited cord as another seller produces." |
31st Jul 2020, 12:57 pm | #16 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Southport Lancashire, UK.
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Sorry, I missed that. I think I will leave mine as it is with a 44 Bell set - which doesn't actually include a bell of course.
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Paul |
31st Jul 2020, 1:40 pm | #17 | |
Heptode
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
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31st Jul 2020, 2:14 pm | #18 | |
Dekatron
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
Quote:
Fortunately, I managed to acquire a proper telephone 248 for my Bellset 44.
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31st Jul 2020, 6:32 pm | #19 | |
Dekatron
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Re: GPO 232 Pyramid phone with attached bell box
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