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Old 7th Jan 2007, 9:57 pm   #41
Andy Green
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Well, it is about 40 foot high. (see nearby cows for scale) Using the SETI parabolic gain estimator spreadsheet at http://www.setileague.org/software/spreadsh.htm it calculates the gain at 650 MHz at around 35 dBi. It looks to be pointing East, so I guess it was going for Presely in Wales. Not a great path though! The trouble most of these deflectors had was extreme changes in signal strength - in Winter, there is virtually no signal, but in Summer, and especially with a bit of high pressure, they bomb in at local strengths.
Although propagation is not really line of site, I thought it interesting to do path profiles in Radiomobile (available at http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html ) between the sites:
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Old 14th Jan 2007, 6:53 pm   #42
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Here's a set up for Kirk O'Shotts ch3 and Black Hill ch10 taken in Haddington, East Lothian circ 2001. Sorry for the poor quality.

The recent horrible weather has probably taken its toll on many survivors sadly.

Cheers,
Brian
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Old 14th Jan 2007, 10:44 pm   #43
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Focus Diode View Post
Here's a set up for Kirk O'Shotts ch3 and Black Hill ch10 taken in Haddington, East Lothian circ 2001. Sorry for the poor quality.

The recent horrible weather has probably taken its toll on many survivors sadly.

Cheers,
Brian
Looks as if it is still connected in that photograph. Just waithing for next Saturday's episode of Doctor Who starring William Hartnell.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 4:11 pm   #44
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

This photo of me was taken when I was 10 years old in 1965, when I repaired the element I fixed it to my shed about 4 metres high! Can't remember how. I used it with an old Philips TV that I had been given and I repaired. The aerial would have been used with signals from Belmont or possibly Emley Moor.
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Old 21st Jan 2007, 3:45 pm   #45
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

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Originally Posted by 60 oldjohn View Post
The aerial would have been used with signals from Belmont or possibly Emley Moor.
Well, the X wouldn't have been much use as neither of those stations transmitted in Band 1. I expect you were getting Holme Moss on the X and Emley on the Band 3.

Post number 100... this thread is proving surprisingly popular! We're not quite up to the Aurora thread but we're getting there.

Talking of Belmont, does anyone know what aerials were used (channels 7 and 13), or better still have a picture? Were they wideband or were 2 separate aerials used?
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Old 21st Jan 2007, 9:19 pm   #46
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Thanks David might well have been for Holme Moss as my parents first had TV in 1955.

Did Belmont come into service after 1955? We are only 40 miles from Belmont and about 100 miles from Holme Moss?
Around the time the photo was taken and new aerial the installed (1965) I remember TV man adding coils to get Anglia Televison; presume that was from Belmont. Today we get a good signal from Belmont with just a loft aerial.
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Old 22nd Jan 2007, 12:00 pm   #47
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Yes, Belmont opened in 1965 according to this article: http://tx.mb21.co.uk/info/405/itv/east.asp

In Nottingham it provided an alternative ITV region, and the BBC signal could have been used as an alternative when Sutton Coldfield channel 4 suffered from the dreaded 'continental interference'. Unfortunately I didn't think of this possibility at the time, and neither did the local cable company (Rediffusion) who faithfully relayed the mangled pictures, with the occasional audio announcement to apologise for the interference.

Today I have the benefit of living on high ground and I get excellent DTT from Belmont at a distance of 72km.
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Old 22nd Jan 2007, 10:46 pm   #48
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

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Talking of Belmont, does anyone know what aerials were used (channels 7 and 13), or better still have a picture? Were they wideband or were 2 separate aerials used?
I would imagine a single w/b BIII aerial would've been used, certainly in BATH single horizontally polarised BIII aerials were used for the reception of BBC1 West on ch6 and HTV General Service on ch8.

Cheers,
Brian
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Old 23rd Jan 2007, 5:54 am   #49
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Speaking of the ch6 and 8 BATH relay, opened in 1968 I've found a photo of a double 6 type horizontally polarised BIII installation taken at the Lower Bristol Road area of Twerton, Bath in 1996. The photos may not come over too well as they were taken on a cheapo 35mm camera without zoom.

Interesting that the right chimney carries a double BIII vertically polarised installation for St Hilary and a UHF one for the Bath relay.

The use of a stacked double BIII aerial suggests even reception of the relay was difficult in that location!

Brian R
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Old 23rd Jan 2007, 9:54 pm   #50
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Parts of Bath are notorious for poor tv reception, even today especially in Weston village (on the outskirts of Bath) UHF analogue reception is horrendous from both the Bath relay and the main station at Mendip. I don't think DTT would stand a chance here!.
Up to a few years ago there was still a few Band 3 Bathampton aerials here in Longwell Green (about 6 miles outside Bath) and I know for a fact that the higher powered ITV signal on ch8 reached as far out as Bradford upon Avon (or Tims patch )
Ref the B3 wide band aerials, where my familly now live on the Wirral Merseyside, wideband band 3 aerials were extensivly used when the new BBC1service from Winter Hill opened in about 1966. So only one aerial was required for reception of the new BBC1 service on ch12 and Granada on ch9.
The new BBC1 service from Winter Hill not only offered local programmes and news but freedom from continental interference which was a major problem that effected the ch2 sevice from Holme Moss.
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Old 23rd Jan 2007, 10:22 pm   #51
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

I could receive the Bath ch8 relay in Chippenham, although the signal was weak. The main aerials (see photo, taken in 1979) were for Wenvoe and ch12 Membury ATV,(although the Antiference "Truematch" looks to have a couple of elements missing!).

I tried one of those Telerection double 8 "Multimus" designed for ch10, this gave really first class reception from Chillerton Down ch11 Southern TV under all weather conditions.

Brian R
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Old 24th Jan 2007, 10:45 pm   #52
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

I knew it...the moment I spotted this thread, I started looking up at aerials whenever I was outside.

I can report that despite the weather here, the "H" aerials are still all over the place...in fact, I really couldn't believe it when I spotted how many there were! Westburn Road having the heaviest population of them I've seen so far...with houses without one being the exception rather than the rule! Will see if I can get the camera out there at the weekend...

Edit: Would make things a lot more informative if I told you where "here" is! Aberdeen in this case.

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Old 27th Jan 2007, 8:03 pm   #53
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Just reading through, and was very interested in the stuff about the Barnstaple TX site. Unfortunatley, I am too young to remember any 405 stuff!
Our 'local' mast is Huntshaw Cross, although TV reception across much of North Devon can be horrendous. I do know that out near Ilfracombe and parts of Exmoor they point their aerials at Wales instead.

At our house, in a deep Devon valley, our reception antenna is half a mile up the hill, and a very long coax joins it to the set in the front room! It seems to be struck by lightning on a regular basis - we have got through 4 now (since 1978), and dug up the coax line and laid new stuff twice.

With the switch-over I think we'll have to accept paying for satellite TV - FreeView reception is practically non-existent, and for some reason the property doesn't get cable.
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Old 27th Jan 2007, 10:44 pm   #54
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

We're on Huntshaw Cross too, our analogue and Freeview are pretty good, but we're not far from Huntshaw Cross, so that's probably why. We visited St John's Garden Centre in Barnstaple last week and I have an idea that it is the Barnstaple relay you can see ahead of you.

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Old 28th Jan 2007, 6:50 pm   #55
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

I took this picture this afternoon. It is on a farmhouse at Rowhook about five miles from Horsham.
I have cheated.........A nasty UHF array was mounted on the cranked arm so I removed it with the photo programme. I think its an improvement...
Regards John.
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Old 30th Jan 2007, 8:21 pm   #56
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Hello,
I took another lorry to Guildford test station today following the A281 to Guildford from Horsham. The first picture was taken just outside BRAMLEY.
Not one but two combined '405' aerials on adjoining cottages. I bet their owners are still waiting for 'Normal Service to be Resumed...' I have under exposed the shots to improve contrast.
The other one is situated on the roof of the 'LITTLE CHEF' on the A25 Dorking to Reigate Road. It is lined up to the south, a long haul to Dorking. Looks like a channel three and eleven job. Reception from London must have been very difficult due to Box Hill right in front. There are dozens of aerials in this area.
Regards John.
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Old 2nd Feb 2007, 9:28 am   #57
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Hello,
What appears to be the last 'H' in Cranleigh High Street, or rather what's left of it. J.
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Old 2nd Feb 2007, 2:54 pm   #58
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Now it's a lower case 'h'
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Old 5th Feb 2007, 12:04 am   #59
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Wonderful photos John! I wonder when all these aerials ceased use as TV aerials? I've noticed some BI ch5 types in Hexham being more modern types with folded dipoles which may suggest 1970s?

As late as 1979 or 80 I remember reading about an area in the NE served by a new UHF relay transmitter, though I can't remember which one. There was a mention that, until it was introduced viewers could only receive pictures on chs 5 and 8, "Which is to be phased out soon".

The Chippenham aerials were probably last used in July 1982 before leaving the area, Membury ch12 was still transmitting at this time.

Certainly in Sedgefield in the '70s sparkling new UHF aerials were put up replacing the single ch5 horizontal "H" when viewers went over to colour!

Cheers,
Brian
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Old 21st Feb 2007, 10:48 am   #60
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Default Re: Your best preserved '405' aerial

Seen on the Essex/Suffolk border. The H aerial was on a mast attached to a sort of shed at a farm. I wonder if it was actually intended for TV reception.

The other aerial (CB?) was very close to it but on a mast attached to another shed.
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