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Old 20th Mar 2011, 8:35 pm   #1
Alastair E
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Default Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Having an issue at the moment.

Decided to dig out my old Philips N1501 VCR and run it up....

Switching the TV (a panasonic plasma) to 'Analogue' and running the tuning feature it passes what is obviously the N1501 but cannot lock or resolve the image.
Its a mass of herring-bone patterns and chroma shadows, even if the TV is forced to hold a channel and the VCR Modulator tweaked to try and fine-tune the issue....

Looks exactly like the effect of the video channel directly 'on top of' a standard analoge station....
--It Isnt as I had no aerial connected and no Analogue is broadcast here now....

So--Not sure if the N1501 has a Modulator fault--Or there is an issue of new sets recieving 'old' signals.....

Any ideas, had something similar yourself...?

Guess I need to dig out an Old CTV now to check.....
--Which is gonna be a LOT harder than it sounds!
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Old 20th Mar 2011, 11:19 pm   #2
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Did the 1501 have a video output or was that on later machines? I thought it was fitted with one of those big round types (don't know what it was called) but they often appeared on early Thorn machines.

If it has got one, you could cobble up a cable and see if it works via Scart.



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Old 20th Mar 2011, 11:30 pm   #3
dominicbeesley
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

I've had similar bother trying to get modern TVs to tune in to old computers - they seem to want to lock to the sound carrier which isn't exactly where it should be and everything goes pear shaped!

Dom
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Old 20th Mar 2011, 11:34 pm   #4
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Hi,
I seem to recall having a similar problem with an old "tele-tennis" game that we tried to tune into a flat screen television.

The Philips N1501 should have a Six - Pin DIN socket on the rear (this may be occluded by a knock - out) which provides baseband audio and video of similar levels to that from a SCART connection, the connection details are shown here

Regards
Andrew
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Old 21st Mar 2011, 12:42 am   #5
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Most sets like this have a manual tuning and fine tuning feature. Use these.

Cheers,

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Old 21st Mar 2011, 9:30 am   #6
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Yes that's a good point Steve. Maybe these new-fangled sets don't like the double-sideband RF outputs and reject it as interference.

When I was at Philips, some of the new LCD sets with auto-tuning were very fussy about the RF signal and didn't like the output from a lot of modulators. The main problem is that most of the old modulators are not exactly tuned to the channel number and are slightly high or low of the nominal. Not so bad if it's a later modulator that can be tuned via the remote to an exact channel number.

Basically if the new set finds the signal but it's outside of the AFC pull-in range, it will reject it as a 'bad' signal.

So much for 'progress'!



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Old 21st Mar 2011, 10:10 am   #7
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

I have also had this problem with both vhs & an atari console, i tried them on an old colour portable (manual tuning) and both worked fine, so must be a tuning issue (software based?) with the modern tv, i do get a picture, but it seems way off tune & sound is also distorted.
As a matter of interest, i have no trouble via rf into my rear projection toshiba tv which is about 8 years old.

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Old 21st Mar 2011, 2:26 pm   #8
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark pirate View Post
I have also had this problem with both vhs & an atari console, i tried them on an old colour portable (manual tuning) and both worked fine, so must be a tuning issue (software based?) with the modern tv, i do get a picture, but it seems way off tune & sound is also distorted.
Yep this is what I was referring to above. Normal TV programmes are spot-on frequency within a very fine degree but that is not the case with VCR or games modulators. Auto-tune sets rely on software to fine-tune using synthesizing methods. There is a fine 'catchment' range and if the modulator is outside this range, the TV will reject it. Some sets are better than others.


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Old 21st Mar 2011, 7:07 pm   #9
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Apart from the problem of rejecting DSB signals, which can be overcome by using baseband video, how well do these modern sets react to mechanical* TV?

With the modern move to PVRs, do manufacturers still bother to cater for the less-than-perfect speed stability of a VCR's spinning head drum?

Terry

* No! I'm not thinking 30 line Baird here!
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 2:14 am   #10
Alastair E
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Thanks for the confirmation that others have had similar issues. I thought the double-sideband from the modulator may be upsetting this new fangled Panasonic plasma thing...

Great that there's a video/audio socket on there, and at least I can do summit with that, it was hidden behind a plastic grommet on the rear cover.....

But, its going to have to wait, the ******'s developed a head-servo fault since I serviced the mechanicals.
Last night the head-belt was slipping and the weak head-servo was sufficient to 'pull in' the head speed.
Since its all now clean, and belt gripping properly (Original just cleaned) it wont lock up, and runs fast.

I'm guessing a dried up cap or two, in PSU or servo-- More fun tomorrow I guess!
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 6:10 am   #11
Michael Maurice
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

Do these machines have a test signal or E-E?

What happens if you put the machine in record? Do you see the programe the VCR is tuned into?

If you're trying to tune in while replaying a tape, the tuner may not 'like' the varying output from tape playback.
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 1:46 pm   #12
Alastair E
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

There isnt a test-pattern switch (As far as I know....) on the 1501......

Normally, I usually ran a tape and tuned for the contents of the tape...

--Unfortunately, there is no analogue signal here anymore, but guess I could use a DVD 'RF' output to try and tune E-E via the 1501....

Last night I did find a screened lead in the centre of the Luma-Chroma proc board that had broken--So, It could have been causing the fault, but haven't confirmed....

First, I must sort out this irritating head-servo fault.....
--Its clearly 'unlocked' as the played fm RF from tape as displayed on the meter can be seen to run-through, in and out of track, and the strobing effect of flourecent light is showing the head running fast.

Manually slowing the head by finger-pressure on its rim will allow almost correct lock and a constant fm RF signal registered on the meter...
--Eddy-current brake voltage is only 0.7V,--should be around 5-7V as I recall
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Old 22nd Mar 2011, 4:04 pm   #13
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

I would be inclined to try it on an older CRT set first before pulling the video to bits, I have heard of a number of people with modern Plasma & LCD sets having difficulty getting them to tune into an RF source form a VCR.
One thing you could try would be if you know what channel the VCR outputs on you could then tune the set manually to that particular channel, you may of course have to "tweak" the modulator a little in the video.
Hope this helps.
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Old 23rd Mar 2011, 2:18 am   #14
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

How about putting the signal through a video stabilizer? I have one that cleans up the signal from a VHS or Beta machine that I use before backing up my old videos to hard drive and DVD. It accepts a composite input and puts out either a cleaned up composite or s-video output. Could one of these units save a lot of hassle? (Australian link but the same unit is available globally through places like eBay).

Alternatively, feeding the signal through something like a DVD recorder that has a TBC may also do the trick.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...r&form=KEYWORD

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Old 24th Mar 2011, 5:31 pm   #15
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Default Re: Issues running OLD videos with New TV's (on analogue)

I observed that when I fed the non-interlaced 624-line (should that be 312P?) output from my Commodore 64 into my DVD recorder that the machine converted this to a proper interlaced signal, so these machines should have no problem dealing with other irregularites such as the video head switch point (which may upset some of these modern flat screen displays).


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