Baird P.2214 - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum

G3JZF_John · 19th Feb 2015, 6:03 pm

Hi Guys

Does anyone have any information on the Baird P.2214. I acquired one recently to get the tube.
Before throwing the chassis away, I would like to get the circuit etc because it looks like an easy set to work on. The RF section splits away from the main chassis with the timebases and power supply. I have several Bush front ends which are working and it maybe worth while restoring the rest and making a hybrid set!

Many Thanks

John

FERNSEH · 19th Feb 2015, 11:10 pm

I can't find any information about the Baird P2214 in the Radio and Television servicing books.
However, there is infomation about the fringe area versions of the P2114 series in the 1955/56 book. These sets have the 13 channel tuner.
Earlier single band 5 channel Baird P2114 receivers are to be found in the 1953/54 servicing book.
Baird sets in the 1956/57 book have the Ambassador chassis.
Principle differences between standard and fringe area version is the inclusion of flywheel line sync and vision AGC in fringe sets.

DFWB.

G3JZF_John · 20th Feb 2015, 12:16 pm

Thanks DFWB

At lest you have found some information.
Are the TV servicing books online or do I need to visit the library?

I have looked at the Ambassador sets on the BVWS CD but they are not the same. The Baird has a split chassis - like the Bush sets and valve rectifiers in the power supply.

I will do a bit more searching and see what I can come up with.

Many thanks for your help.

John

FERNSEH · 20th Feb 2015, 4:45 pm

Hi John,
Circuits of the earliest versions of this series of receivers.
The diagrams are of the five channel receivers. The 13 channel versions employ similar IF and timebase circuits. Models 2114 etc.
The five channel tuner used in some Baird TVs including the 2014 was the subject of discussion in this forum.
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...+channel+tuner

DFWB.

FERNSEH · 20th Feb 2015, 5:16 pm

Circuits of later Baird sets made in 1955. This is the "fringe area" version with flywheel sync. An extra valve, V401, functions as a coincidence detector to control the frequency and phase of the line oscillator.
Models P2114 etc.

DFWB.

AidanLunn · 21st Feb 2015, 2:27 pm

You might as well break the chassis up for parts and then sell them on rather than chuck them. There will be much-needed parts in there by someone and you'll earn some money back from buying it by selling the parts anyway.

One day another Baird P2114 might need a LOPT, or a mains dropper for instance.

G3JZF_John · 22nd Feb 2015, 3:04 pm

To DFWB
Many Thanks for the info - A great help.

To AidenLunn

Sounds like a good idea:
If I go down this route, I think -rather than break it up- I may recap the RF section, get it going and then let someone else have the set. I bought it at Wooton Bassett for the tube, which looks have decent emission and the set won't owe me anything.
I plan to use the tube in a Bush TV62 which has one with dodgy heater. Only problem is that one uses an electrostatically focussed tube and I will have to take some advice.

Thanks too all
JOHN

Freya · 22nd Feb 2015, 3:26 pm

What tube is fitted in the Baird ?

FERNSEH · 22nd Feb 2015, 3:31 pm

If it is the 14" set, and the model number indicates that, the CRT was the Mullard MW36-24 or MW36-44.

DFWB.

G3JZF_John · 22nd Feb 2015, 3:40 pm

Baird tube is a MW36-44

John

G3JZF_John · 1st Mar 2015, 10:26 pm

I have been trying to fit the MW36-44 from the Baird to my Bush TV36 and have made a bracket to carry the focus magnet.
Unfortunately the Bush LOPT has failed again and I don't think the one in the Baird is any good either.
I am now in the market for a Bush TV62 LOPT and a AW36-21 tube. I have done a good deal of work on the Bush and do not want to throw it out.
The Baird is very dirty and would need a lot of work to restore it. I may elect to take out the timebase parts and turn into a monitor now that I have the circuits. Thanks DFWB!
For the moment I want to return to the TV 22 and fit a replacement frame blocking oscillator transformer - I need a success to keep me going!

Thanks Gents
John

FERNSEH · 1st Mar 2015, 11:20 pm

Hi John,
Ed Dinning will rewind your TV22 blocking oscillator transformer.
Read about the restoration of a Bush TV22 and the rewound blocking oscillator transformer here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...sh+TV22&page=2

TV36: I always believed that the Bush TV36 was a 17" CRT set.
The rectangular 14" MW36-44 has the same physical dimensions as the MW36-24. The main difference is that the MW36-24 has a tetrode gun and the M36-44 has the pentode gun assembly. For service work the two tubes are interchangeable.

Baird P2214: Very rare set, it doesn't matter if it is dirty, it'll clean up.
I'd keep faith with it.

DFWB.

Heatercathodeshort · 2nd Mar 2015, 9:43 am

I thought exacly the same thing David. Seems a real pity to scrap a rare Baird P2214 just to get a very common and technically boring TV36 working. I think I would have carried out the reverse! Regards, John.

G3JZF_John · 2nd Mar 2015, 10:58 am

That's fine by me.

I will do that thing. I'll start by recapping the RF section and get that working then move on to the rest. The set is quite clean under the chassis. The top should clean up, but the cabinet is quite badly scratched.
Ill keep you all informed - I am sure to need some help.

John

G3JZF_John · 2nd Mar 2015, 11:21 am

Sorry
Senior moment!
For TV 36 - Read TV 62. 14 inch AW36-21 (I think - label missing-) It has a dodgy heater.

TV22 type LOPT but ferrite core which has now failed -need a new one.

John

FERNSEH · 2nd Mar 2015, 12:06 pm

Don't be put off the restoration of the Baird TV because of a few scratches on the cabinet. You should see some of the junk TVs I've restored over the years.
Link to my very rare and desirable Masteradio T852 TV.

https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...io+T852&page=3

Post #41 shows the repair to the cabinet base.

DFWB.

Heatercathodeshort · 4th Mar 2015, 9:59 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FERNSEH

You should see some of the JUNK TVs I've restored over the years.
Link to my very rare and desirable Masteradio T852 TV.

John needs encouragement David, not despair..

The Baird should be a worthwhile restoration. The LOPT will probably be in good condition. Good luck with it. Regards, John.

G3JZF_John · 4th Mar 2015, 11:33 am

John & David

No worries, I have decided to hold on to the Baird.
I do have worries about the LOPT -no ringing.
The cabinet will clean up - no deep scratches. The RF chassis should be OK ; the main chassis has a load of caps that are crumbling and will need replacing.
I will need to find the circuit of the variant that I have. Thanks David for the info you posted.
I will post some photos when I get a chance so that we can identify the design and move on from there.
Need to finish a TV22 first.
Thanks all

John

G3JZF_John · 8th Mar 2015, 12:49 pm

Here are some photos of the Baird after the first clean up.
Hopefully we can identify the variant and get a circuit and other details. I will press on with the recapping and testing the RF chassis.

John[I]

FERNSEH · 8th Mar 2015, 5:16 pm

Hi John,
Believe or not, that's the first time I've ever seen one of those Baird TVs. In terms of construction quality it looks OK to me.
No idea which company actually made the P2114 series receivers, although one thing is sure the manufacturer has no links to the original Baird company.
There was a Hartley-Baird company, perhaps that was the maker of your set. Immediate post-war Baird TVs used Mazda valves and CRTs, e.g. T29 etc.
The Pxxxx series were introduced 1952/53.

DFWB.

19th Feb 2015, 6:03 pm	#1
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Baird P.2214 Hi Guys Does anyone have any information on the Baird P.2214. I acquired one recently to get the tube. Before throwing the chassis away, I would like to get the circuit etc because it looks like an easy set to work on. The RF section splits away from the main chassis with the timebases and power supply. I have several Bush front ends which are working and it maybe worth while restoring the rest and making a hybrid set! Many Thanks John

19th Feb 2015, 11:10 pm	#2
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Baird P.2214 I can't find any information about the Baird P2214 in the Radio and Television servicing books. However, there is infomation about the fringe area versions of the P2114 series in the 1955/56 book. These sets have the 13 channel tuner. Earlier single band 5 channel Baird P2114 receivers are to be found in the 1953/54 servicing book. Baird sets in the 1956/57 book have the Ambassador chassis. Principle differences between standard and fringe area version is the inclusion of flywheel line sync and vision AGC in fringe sets. DFWB.

20th Feb 2015, 12:16 pm	#3
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Baird P.2214 Thanks DFWB At lest you have found some information. Are the TV servicing books online or do I need to visit the library? I have looked at the Ambassador sets on the BVWS CD but they are not the same. The Baird has a split chassis - like the Bush sets and valve rectifiers in the power supply. I will do a bit more searching and see what I can come up with. Many thanks for your help. John

20th Feb 2015, 5:16 pm	#5
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Baird P.2214 Circuits of later Baird sets made in 1955. This is the "fringe area" version with flywheel sync. An extra valve, V401, functions as a coincidence detector to control the frequency and phase of the line oscillator. Models P2114 etc. DFWB. Attached Thumbnails

21st Feb 2015, 2:27 pm	#6
AidanLunn Heptode Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Killamarsh, Sheffield, South Yorkshire, UK. Posts: 746	Re: Baird P.2214 You might as well break the chassis up for parts and then sell them on rather than chuck them. There will be much-needed parts in there by someone and you'll earn some money back from buying it by selling the parts anyway. One day another Baird P2114 might need a LOPT, or a mains dropper for instance.

20th Feb 2015, 4:45 pm	#4
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Baird P.2214 Hi John, Circuits of the earliest versions of this series of receivers. The diagrams are of the five channel receivers. The 13 channel versions employ similar IF and timebase circuits. Models 2114 etc. The five channel tuner used in some Baird TVs including the 2014 was the subject of discussion in this forum. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...+channel+tuner DFWB. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by FERNSEH; 20th Feb 2015 at 4:54 pm.

22nd Feb 2015, 3:04 pm	#7
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Baird P.2214 To DFWB Many Thanks for the info - A great help. To AidenLunn Sounds like a good idea: If I go down this route, I think -rather than break it up- I may recap the RF section, get it going and then let someone else have the set. I bought it at Wooton Bassett for the tube, which looks have decent emission and the set won't owe me anything. I plan to use the tube in a Bush TV62 which has one with dodgy heater. Only problem is that one uses an electrostatically focussed tube and I will have to take some advice. Thanks too all JOHN

22nd Feb 2015, 3:26 pm	#8
Freya Octode Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, UK. Posts: 1,991	Re: Baird P.2214 What tube is fitted in the Baird ? __________________ Stephen _________"It`s only an old telly" ___

22nd Feb 2015, 3:31 pm	#9
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Baird P.2214 If it is the 14" set, and the model number indicates that, the CRT was the Mullard MW36-24 or MW36-44. DFWB. Last edited by FERNSEH; 22nd Feb 2015 at 3:45 pm.

22nd Feb 2015, 3:40 pm	#10
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Baird P.2214 Baird tube is a MW36-44 John

1st Mar 2015, 10:26 pm	#11
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Baird P.2214 I have been trying to fit the MW36-44 from the Baird to my Bush TV36 and have made a bracket to carry the focus magnet. Unfortunately the Bush LOPT has failed again and I don't think the one in the Baird is any good either. I am now in the market for a Bush TV62 LOPT and a AW36-21 tube. I have done a good deal of work on the Bush and do not want to throw it out. The Baird is very dirty and would need a lot of work to restore it. I may elect to take out the timebase parts and turn into a monitor now that I have the circuits. Thanks DFWB! For the moment I want to return to the TV 22 and fit a replacement frame blocking oscillator transformer - I need a success to keep me going! Thanks Gents John

1st Mar 2015, 11:20 pm	#12
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Baird P.2214 Hi John, Ed Dinning will rewind your TV22 blocking oscillator transformer. Read about the restoration of a Bush TV22 and the rewound blocking oscillator transformer here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...sh+TV22&page=2 TV36: I always believed that the Bush TV36 was a 17" CRT set. The rectangular 14" MW36-44 has the same physical dimensions as the MW36-24. The main difference is that the MW36-24 has a tetrode gun and the M36-44 has the pentode gun assembly. For service work the two tubes are interchangeable. Baird P2214: Very rare set, it doesn't matter if it is dirty, it'll clean up. I'd keep faith with it. DFWB.

2nd Mar 2015, 9:43 am	#13
Heatercathodeshort Dekatron Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING. Posts: 9,147	Re: Baird P.2214 I thought exacly the same thing David. Seems a real pity to scrap a rare Baird P2214 just to get a very common and technically boring TV36 working. I think I would have carried out the reverse! Regards, John.

2nd Mar 2015, 10:58 am	#14
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Baird P.2214 That's fine by me. I will do that thing. I'll start by recapping the RF section and get that working then move on to the rest. The set is quite clean under the chassis. The top should clean up, but the cabinet is quite badly scratched. Ill keep you all informed - I am sure to need some help. John

2nd Mar 2015, 11:21 am	#15
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Baird P.2214 Sorry Senior moment! For TV 36 - Read TV 62. 14 inch AW36-21 (I think - label missing-) It has a dodgy heater. TV22 type LOPT but ferrite core which has now failed -need a new one. John

2nd Mar 2015, 12:06 pm	#16
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Baird P.2214 Don't be put off the restoration of the Baird TV because of a few scratches on the cabinet. You should see some of the junk TVs I've restored over the years. Link to my very rare and desirable Masteradio T852 TV. https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...io+T852&page=3 Post #41 shows the repair to the cabinet base. DFWB.

4th Mar 2015, 11:33 am	#18
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Baird P.2214 John & David No worries, I have decided to hold on to the Baird. I do have worries about the LOPT -no ringing. The cabinet will clean up - no deep scratches. The RF chassis should be OK ; the main chassis has a load of caps that are crumbling and will need replacing. I will need to find the circuit of the variant that I have. Thanks David for the info you posted. I will post some photos when I get a chance so that we can identify the design and move on from there. Need to finish a TV22 first. Thanks all John

8th Mar 2015, 12:49 pm	#19
G3JZF_John Retired Dormant Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, Uk. Posts: 78	Re: Baird P.2214 Here are some photos of the Baird after the first clean up. Hopefully we can identify the variant and get a circuit and other details. I will press on with the recapping and testing the RF chassis. John[I] Attached Thumbnails

8th Mar 2015, 5:16 pm	#20
FERNSEH Dekatron Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK. Posts: 7,444	Re: Baird P.2214 Hi John, Believe or not, that's the first time I've ever seen one of those Baird TVs. In terms of construction quality it looks OK to me. No idea which company actually made the P2114 series receivers, although one thing is sure the manufacturer has no links to the original Baird company. There was a Hartley-Baird company, perhaps that was the maker of your set. Immediate post-war Baird TVs used Mazda valves and CRTs, e.g. T29 etc. The Pxxxx series were introduced 1952/53. DFWB.