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Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc. |
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23rd May 2014, 7:21 pm | #1 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: North Walsham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 899
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Depressing day Philips N1700
Hi all
I have been clearing out the storerooms and came across my old N1700. It had been stored somewhere damp but I popped the bottom off, fitted a couple of belts gave the heads a clean. Freed off the seized pinch roller and powered it up. It threaded ok so I tried inserting a tape. It threaded up and after a short while with the head motor changing speeds it produced a fine picture. I was so impressed. I then inserted another tape and that played for a short while then the picture degraded and went into black and white stripes suggesting dirty head so out with the head cleaning lint free pad (yes I still have some left from when I had a shop and used them daily on VHS machines) still only a bit of picture every now and again. I then removed the head drum to find that one of the heads was missing. Oh lordy the second tape must have ripped it off so that's the end of that unless anyone has a good drum they want to get rid of. I am really fed up now as I was looking forward to viewing some late 80's (last time it was used) tapes. Pictures below |
24th May 2014, 9:02 am | #2 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Posts: 5,185
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
That is a real shame, I was given the later Grundig version many years ago, but eventually dumped it as a replacement head was so expensive that it was not worth repairing.
It is worth keeping an eye on ebay, you may be able to get another faulty machine with good heads at a reasonable price. Mark |
24th May 2014, 3:12 pm | #3 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Woking & Kingswood S.Glos. UK.
Posts: 27
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
I have a Pye N1700 and a Philips N1702.
At least one of them was working when last plugged in a good few years ago. They have been stored in my house ever since I acquired them from a deadstock auction about 15 years ago. So nice and warm and dry. Shame you are so far away. Cost more than their worth to get them there. |
24th May 2014, 3:31 pm | #4 |
Heptode
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 840
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
If it's any consolation I bet the ferrite was cracked and playing the tape finished it off. It would have gone sooner or later.
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25th May 2014, 1:39 pm | #5 |
Dekatron
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: North Wales, UK.
Posts: 6,884
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Hi
For some reason the red glue that the heads were stuck with used to degrade after a while - sadly you've seen the result. Glyn |
25th May 2014, 5:24 pm | #6 |
Tetrode
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ware, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 75
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Hi Nigel. There was a chap who used to rebuild Ampex and SP heads for us (Thames Television). You could buy "slithers" of ferrite which he used to get a couple of lases to cut, wind and re-mount. I thought this an imposable task until recently as I thought the ferrite was in the shape of a Horse Shoe until an ex 2" colleague of mine pointed out that they where two independent pieces of ferrite each with its own winding stuck together with the head gap at the front and a gap at the back! HD Sony machines are the same! I never knew this until now so with a bit of precision and a lot of determination (Edison?) it could be rebuilt. I will when I have time see if ferrite slithers can still be purchased. Just for the record I did replace the head on a Philips 1500 machine (made one good drum from two faulty drums) and that gave results for over a year in 1980.The head dihedral left something to be desired but on its own recordings it was fine, no tilted azimuth and a guard band on 1500s through.
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25th May 2014, 6:55 pm | #7 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maidstone, Kent, UK.
Posts: 109
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
I had this happen with mine, down the tip it went (about 20 years ago), very sad.
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26th May 2014, 9:52 am | #8 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: North Walsham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 899
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Well there is hope then just have to find a good one on ebay cheap (they seem to be fetching far too much at the mo) and re glue the heads before using. I like the idea of building a new head but the tilt would probably scupper my plans as theres no guard band on 1700's. Perhaps I could talk Knightlley into popping the head drum off and posting it as the whole machines 17Kg whereas a head drums only a couple of hundred grams.
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26th May 2014, 11:59 am | #9 |
Retired Dormant Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Woking & Kingswood S.Glos. UK.
Posts: 27
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
It would be a shame to break a working machine.
I didn't realise they would fetch any money. Thanks for the info. Might have to sort through my various VCRs. I have the Pye N1700, a Philips N1702, a few Philips V2000 machines including a portable with separate tuner/timer, a Grundig V2000, a Sony SL-F30UB Betamax (one of the last models I believe, never seen another one) |
27th May 2014, 5:27 pm | #10 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 9,060
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Probably a silly question but is there any way the heads from a different machine (such as a more modern VHS one from Freecycle) can be persuaded to fit and work? Or are there too many things that are machine and format specific?
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27th May 2014, 8:41 pm | #11 |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ashby-de-la-Zouch (it's not by the sea)
Posts: 1,254
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
That's a good question Paul. I hope someone knows. Also, I wonder what the glue was. It just looks like red cellulose-type paint to me. It would be a real disaster if an attempt to be proactive (by applying more "paint") actually softened-up the original and dislodged the head or of course reacted badly in some way.
Mmmm....
__________________
Now where on earth did I remove that from? |
13th Jun 2014, 10:01 pm | #12 |
Nonode
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gloucester, Glos. UK.
Posts: 2,149
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
I remember the N1500 and 1700 from school, the picture was always unstable and the teacher used to bang the side of the VCR to get it working! and it was NEW ! i think it was the 1500 version as it had a manual clock.
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14th Jun 2014, 3:01 pm | #13 |
Octode
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,517
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Slant azimuth angle and track width are different between N1700 and VHS/Beta so I would expect poor results if it worked at all. Also the heads on the N1700 are not exactly180 degs apart on the drum; rather than use electronic cancellation of crosstalk between adjacent 'colour under' tracks on the tape, Philips used a mechanical 'offset' to align tracks of similar phase side by side.
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16th Jun 2014, 11:23 pm | #14 |
Hexode
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London 90% , Northwest England 10%
Posts: 385
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Noting the website http://www.rewindmuseum.com/philips.htm and size, postage using Collect+ from Cornwall To Norfolk should be around £20 or less.
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19th Jun 2014, 11:41 pm | #15 |
Heptode
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Waiheke Island, New Zealand
Posts: 503
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
It is worth Googling the part no. I managed to get a brand nos head for my 3V00 from Poland. I am sure there is one out there somewhere..
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20th Jun 2014, 8:10 pm | #16 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: North Walsham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 899
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Anyone know the part No for the head ?
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20th Jun 2014, 11:04 pm | #17 |
Pentode
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 156
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Service manual shows this part description and part number. I assume the head disc included the heads mounted/adjusted, more or less ready to go:
head disc N1700 - 4822 691 20086 |
21st Jun 2014, 10:48 pm | #18 |
Heptode
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: North Walsham, Norfolk, UK.
Posts: 899
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Cheers John no luck googling it but worth looking every now and again just in case
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1st Nov 2015, 7:14 pm | #19 |
Nonode
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,013
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Amazed that there is still interest in these.
I think I have 2 machines and a number of tapes which were last used in ~1990. I had a 1500 once upon a time but I seem to remember it was cannibalised for its heads. There are a few threads about N1700s here, this mentions head rebuilding which I think I concluded was necessary for my basket cases. Somewhere I have (or at least I had once upon a time) full service documentation. No heads made that irrelevant. I hope it survives and I can find it. Fond memories of watching the "service tech" from local dealers jemmying the cassette carrier to try and open it. It had already munched one tape and I had removed it by tackling the release lever from underneath. I put in some cassette which was sacrificial for the next try. He seemed to prefer the big screwdriver approach - eek! I think I was maybe 16? I wonder what is the story about fixing heads? I'm a fair hand at winding ferrites but getting the right shape cores is another story altogether. I didn't follow that link about head restoring yet. |
1st Nov 2015, 9:22 pm | #20 |
Nonode
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Welwyn Garden City, Hertfordshire, UK.
Posts: 2,013
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Re: Depressing day Philips N1700
Bah - the link to rewind_museum wasn't about fixing broken heads as I first thought - unfortunately...
Has anyone tried taking the heads from several drums, find the good heads from each and make a transplant? That must be worth a try Y/N ?? I haven't been thinking about this for almost 20yrs! This red paint/glue - do we know what it is? |