UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 30th Oct 2022, 10:42 am   #1
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...1843126523866/

@slidertogrid - you once asked if anybody had a spare UHF tuning knob.. this one would gladly give its self up for parts!
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2022, 11:56 am   #2
Heatercathodeshort
Dekatron
 
Heatercathodeshort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 9,145
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Amazing the front has remained undamaged, even the tube looks serviceable. Dr Barbara Moore would have trudged all the way to Scotland for that one! J.
Heatercathodeshort is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2022, 2:57 pm   #3
Lloyd 1985
Nonode
 
Lloyd 1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coningsby, Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 2,814
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

If I was closer I’d have that! I love a good basket case…

Regards
Lloyd
Lloyd 1985 is online now  
Old 30th Oct 2022, 3:16 pm   #4
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Too far for me even (wrong side of the country).
I hope somebody can rescue it and make a cabinet. Should be recoverable !?
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2022, 8:05 pm   #5
slidertogrid
Octode
 
slidertogrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 1,897
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfatangowhisky View Post
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...1843126523866/

@slidertogrid - you once asked if anybody had a spare UHF tuning knob.. this one would gladly give its self up for parts!
Yes It would be just the job! I still have the set needing a knob. I have another with a broken shaft on the VHF tuner (Mazac gone brittle) Plus the LOPT would always be a handy spare... But as others have said, Too far away to be viable.
And of course someone may be able to save it, if the case is all there it may stick back together...
slidertogrid is offline  
Old 10th Nov 2022, 11:03 pm   #6
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I have made arrangements to get this when visiting family in Fife between Xmas and New Year so after I haul it back the bits you need are all yours @slidertogrid

What's left I might see if I can summon a picture up on !!
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2022, 10:29 am   #7
slidertogrid
Octode
 
slidertogrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Peterborough, Cambridgeshire, UK.
Posts: 1,897
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

That is very generous of you many thanks! I will of course meet your costs for postage. But please see if the set is saveable first basket cases are the best restorations!

Rich.
slidertogrid is offline  
Old 19th Nov 2022, 10:39 pm   #8
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Apparently it was found by the guy on a dog walk on scrub land back in Feb 2022.

As you can see the casing was in one piece back then...

(not got it yet by the way. In a month or so)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	markup_1000002333.jpg
Views:	278
Size:	69.6 KB
ID:	268378  
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2022, 11:15 pm   #9
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Well, Sobell and the family braved the flooded journey back from Fife so now let's see what we have...

Considering that the set has been outside for decades (?) what's left actually could be considered for a basket-case resurrection ! It was found in woodland earlier this year, brought back to a breakers yard, case crumbled and stored under a propped-up Transit van !!!

Here is what is clearly needing attention at first glance:

1. No cabinet obviously but the base plywood piece is present and not totally rotted away

2. Dropper has come apart but the resistance wire still seems to be attached to the tag. No matter any rate as I probably have a spare or can 'polo' it.

3. Some dry joints found, example on the H / V hold pots

4. Slight chip on the inner rim of the fascia at the top, and a thin silver trim appears to have come away from somewhere and is snapped into 2 pieces

5. Wire to the top cap clip of the PL504 broken off at valve side

6. System switch linkage appears to be missing

7. Rust, especially on the tuners and sound / vertical transformers / choke

8. UHF knob will not turn

9. No sign of mains lead or where it fed into

10. A blue 'Duomould' type cap has bulged and breached


And what is surprisingly OK...

1. CRT appears fine, no corrosion to the pins. Sealing pip appears to have taken a hit but I think it is intact and tube still has vacuum

2. All valves present and none seem to have gone to air

3. VHF tuner clunks all the way around

4. System switch is free-moving and all contacts appear fine

5. No obvious cracks to PCBs

6. LOPT looks fine, but no idea about the state of the actual windings

7. The mains fuse is not open

8. Speaker cone undamaged

9. Power switch clicks / brightness control turns

10. No screws (taken out to remove ply base and speaker) were stuck

11. Deflection coils look fine

12. CRT 'dag appears good condition

13. Spindle legs mounting 'feet' all appear to be intact

14. The all important UHF knob is present and intact !!


So as you can see, after a quick appraisal there are more positives than negatives. Considering its ordeal this set might not be ready to be parted out just yet !! (but of course @slidertogrid can have the tuner knob at any time!)

The chassis is drying out in front of the workshop's log burner. Then I will test the CRT, test LOPT for continuity and if intact dry it out with DC, and then do some more in-depth appraisal and check for heater chain continuity etc.

We know this is a Sobell 10xx series, but can anybody be more specific? I am a bit confused by the layout of the tuners - in the manufacturers and trade data it shows this series having the UHF tuner, viewed from the rear, below and to the right of the VHF tuner but on this we have the UHF above and to the left of the (angled) VHF tuner...
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sob1.jpg
Views:	227
Size:	105.9 KB
ID:	270593   Click image for larger version

Name:	sob2.jpg
Views:	208
Size:	142.6 KB
ID:	270594   Click image for larger version

Name:	sob4.jpg
Views:	193
Size:	62.3 KB
ID:	270595   Click image for larger version

Name:	sob3.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	141.4 KB
ID:	270596   Click image for larger version

Name:	sob8.jpg
Views:	172
Size:	41.5 KB
ID:	270597  

alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2022, 11:18 pm   #10
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

More pics..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sob5.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	66.5 KB
ID:	270598   Click image for larger version

Name:	sob6.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	80.3 KB
ID:	270599   Click image for larger version

Name:	sob7.jpg
Views:	158
Size:	144.6 KB
ID:	270600   Click image for larger version

Name:	sob9.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	141.7 KB
ID:	270601   Click image for larger version

Name:	sob10.jpg
Views:	146
Size:	71.4 KB
ID:	270602  

alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2022, 11:46 pm   #11
Lloyd 1985
Nonode
 
Lloyd 1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coningsby, Lincolnshire, UK.
Posts: 2,814
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Wow… it’s surprisingly better than I thought it’d be!
Lloyd 1985 is online now  
Old 31st Dec 2022, 3:35 pm   #12
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Well it might actually be the end of the road...

The LOPT core has a crack. I assume this will disturb the function too much to let it be of any use.

Any suggestions ? Can it be 'stuck back together' ?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sob_x.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	90.2 KB
ID:	270624  
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2022, 3:57 pm   #13
Rich Woods
Pentode
 
Rich Woods's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Ceredigion, Wales, UK.
Posts: 243
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

So long as the adhesive is “thin” like superglue & doesn’t create a non ferrous “gap” of glue, I don’t see why not. I’m presuming it’s a ferrite core, which is from memory (feel free to correct me) just iron filings in adhesive.
Rich Woods is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2022, 4:12 pm   #14
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Ignore me doofus ramblings. The core is fine, it's just the overwind that has moved away from where it looks like it should key into. I assume that this needs persuading over so that the keyways align on the front side and the winding tucks into its slot on the reverse. I guess time, moisture and expansion/contraction has made things shift around a little
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PXL_20221231_150514980.jpg
Views:	108
Size:	55.0 KB
ID:	270631   Click image for larger version

Name:	PXL_20221231_150853829.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	59.0 KB
ID:	270632  
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2022, 4:42 pm   #15
linescan87
Heptode
 
linescan87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Meath, Ireland
Posts: 547
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I recently came across its GEC brother, the 2018DST. It had a hard life too and had lived outside for a while. I used the DC current trick to dry out the LOPT for a few days. I got very surprising results when I powered up.

See this for a little encouragement https://youtu.be/qipKi31NssE

Good luck with it.
__________________
All the best, John Joe

www.youtube.com/c/ojnojirishvintagetvandradio
linescan87 is online now  
Old 31st Dec 2022, 6:21 pm   #16
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

Quote:
Originally Posted by linescan87 View Post
I recently came across its GEC brother, the 2018DST. It had a hard life too and had lived outside for a while. I used the DC current trick to dry out the LOPT for a few days. I got very surprising results when I powered up.

See this for a little encouragement https://youtu.be/qipKi31NssE

Good luck with it.
Hi J J. Yes I have seen your video and remember how astounded you were with the picture. I hope the tube in this is similarly fresh. I will probably check the emissions later today and start on the heater circuit / other basic checks with a view to slowly introducing a few electrons to see what fancies starting to cook.

Dry joints / rusted transformers notwithstanding it could turn out OK as the set uses Mullard mustard caps and after a tickle with a soft brush everything looks in decent shape.
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2022, 11:24 pm   #17
1100 man
Octode
 
1100 man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Ventnor, Isle of Wight, & Great Dunmow, Essex, UK.
Posts: 1,377
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I just love a good basket case and this one is up there with the best! Well done on even attempting to get it going. It's surprising that the bottom has survived considering it must have sat on the ground for years.

I'm never much concerned about the tube as I know that the LOPT will cause me more than enough grief on its own!

I've got two examples of the slightly earlier 1000/2000 series Sobell/GEC D/S sets. I think circuit wise they are almost identical, but the 2014 has a much better internal layout and access is much better. The GEC LOPT has an overwind that gets too hot, but a small cooling fan keeps it below meltdown temperature. I guess it has internal insulation breakdown, but otherwise works OK. The Sobell LOPT suffered insulation failure between the primary winding & the core. It didn't work for long enough to see how good the overwind was!

Your transformer looks like the later type with the black overwind, so fingers crossed it behaves itself - best of luck with that!

Hi John,
That was a great video - looks like you have some other interesting stuff on your channel well worth checking out.

I'll be following your progress with interest!

All the best
Nick
1100 man is online now  
Old 1st Jan 2023, 3:55 pm   #18
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I tested the CRT on my Muter BMR and for a start filament was OK. No cut-off but that is often the case with these dormant / tired tubes.

I won't re-generate it and just leave as-is to see what we get when/if 'first light' comes.
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2023, 1:00 am   #19
alfatangowhisky
Pentode
 
alfatangowhisky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Dalbeattie, Dumfries and Galloway, Scotland, UK.
Posts: 116
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

I patched up the dropper with two 'polo' sections - 7R for the 10R and 100R for the 70R (just what I had to hand) and bypassed the power switch (which is pretty messed up with rust), soldering a mains lead into where I snipped off the mains cap (C193).

Chassis was flipped over and examined more closely for dry joints and actually there were none. What I had said previously about the H / V pots was actually lifted pads, the pot probably having been knocked during its ordeal.

Using a lamp limiter (60W) and variac I ran the chassis, sans valves, up to around 60v HT sampled from the choke input. I don't know what AC that worked out at but I just wanted to see if anything would start fizzling. Nothing exciting but I heard faint buzzing from the speaker. After powering off I checked to see if anything was warm, the smoothing can wasn't but the audio output TX was mildly warm (elevated compared to the rest of the chassis temperature). Bad C133?

Next, the valves were examined, pins cleaned, sockets re-sprayed with Deoxit (having had a soak overnight already) and populated (removed yesterday for socket cleaning). Again, amazingly all valves were present (one had fallen out when I rescued the 'set', but it was retrieved from the ground where it lay) and none had lost vacuum with nice healthy getters. Some pins were rusty but no green corrosion was seen making its way past the seals. Finally, I re-connected the tuner valve heater feed tags to complete the circuit.

Upgrading to a 150W lamp for the limiter and bridging an ammeter across the CRT heater pins saw ~150mA on the valve heaters so we have heater circuit continuity. This was confirmed by removing a valve while power was applied, giving an open circuit with no current flow.

So far so good. I will push the voltage a bit further tomorrow and then maybe the firework will really begin!?!
alfatangowhisky is offline  
Old 2nd Jan 2023, 10:12 pm   #20
Colourstar
Octode
 
Colourstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, UK.
Posts: 1,397
Default Re: Sobell D/S TV (1014 ?) on Facebook (Leven, Fife)

What an amazing survivor! Well done for giving it a chance. The cabinets on these are about as basic as you can get, so if the electronics revive successfully, it should be possible to make a new top and sides without too much difficulty. I'm sure someone on here will have another example of that model from which measurements and other photo references could be taken. What an exciting project this could turn out to be.

We are all willing it to live, so best of luck!

Steve
Colourstar is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:18 am.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.