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General Vintage Technology Discussions For general discussions about vintage radio and other vintage electronics etc. |
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6th May 2021, 11:15 am | #1 |
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Household aerial length limitation
I seem to remember that at one time the maximum length of a household wire aerial was limited to 100ft.
Can anyone confirm this and for how long it was in place. Chris |
6th May 2021, 12:13 pm | #2 |
Dekatron
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
It might have been a local authority matter. In the Becontree housng estate in Essex, any sort of external aerial was prohibited without permission, including TV aerials, as a term of the tenancy agreement, so people had to have them put in their lofts.
Last edited by emeritus; 6th May 2021 at 12:14 pm. Reason: typos |
6th May 2021, 12:19 pm | #3 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Yes, a requirement of the licence back in the early days, 100ft maximum antenna length including downlead so far as I know.
Lawrence. |
6th May 2021, 12:19 pm | #4 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
The only thing I recollect from my early amateur radio licence is that aerials within a certain distance from an airfield weren't to exceed a certain height.
Wire aerials aren't a permitted development as far as planning regulations are concerned. Whoever drafted the rules had probably never heard of them. I've never had any complaints about my long wire aerials or support structures.
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6th May 2021, 12:48 pm | #5 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Here's an early ref. from 1925 stating 100ft:
https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/ID...2100%20feet%22 Lawrence. |
6th May 2021, 1:14 pm | #6 |
Pentode
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
I think that originally 100 feet maximum was chosen because it was believed that anything longer would somehow leave the next door houses in a sort of unwirelessed zone in other words they thought a long areal would absorb all the energy in that area
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6th May 2021, 1:46 pm | #7 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
I've heard of 100 feet as the maximum length permitted by the Radio Licence.
But now the receiving licence is abolished, I wonder if that still applies? I guess that it might have been considered at the time of abolishment (late 1960's?), and dismissed as a non-issue, on the basis that since the introduction of licences in crystal-set days and the dropping in the 1960's, long-wire aerials had all but disappeared anyway owing to advances in RF amplification. |
6th May 2021, 2:10 pm | #8 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Perhaps 100ft was chosen in the early days to limit the anti-social effects of mis-adjusted or mal-functioning TRFs as such sets would have been common then and by the 1960s this was no longer considered a significant concern?
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6th May 2021, 2:13 pm | #9 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
This is what RadioRadio has to say about it Page 29 of the Third edition.
On July 5th 1919, all pre-war licences were cancelled but the Post Office did not start to replace these until October 21st 1919 when, under pressure from the wireless societies and clubs, they announced that informal authority could now be granted for the use of receivers only and amateurs could reclaim their wireless apparatus confiscated by the Post Office during the war. Accompanying this relaxation in restrictions, the Experimenter’s Licence (for reception only) was introduced at lOs.Od per annum. Applicants for this new licence had to be of British nationality and had to produce a birth certificate to that effect. They were first required to submit a description of the apparatus they proposed to install, and if they sought to use thermionic valves, a diagram had to be sent showing the circuit layout. If any applicant wanted to buy complete factory-built apparatus (the manufacture of which was still controlled by official permit), he was required to give full particulars of the equipment and the name and address of the firm from whom he bought it. There were restrictions too on the size of the aerial used, the length being limited to 100 feet for a single stranded wire and 140 feet for a double or multistranded wire. So this restriction seemed to be in part a hangover from WW1 and/or the GPO being ever so protective of their monopoly. Cheers Mike T
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6th May 2021, 2:41 pm | #10 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
So far as I can make out the 140ft length for the double or multiple wire is the total length of the wire or wires, the length of the antenna being a max. of 70ft in the case of a double wire antenna.
Lawrence. |
6th May 2021, 2:55 pm | #11 |
Nonode
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
What is a 'single stranded wire'?
Is it a stranded wire in isolation from other wires or is it a wire made from a single strand? |
6th May 2021, 5:31 pm | #12 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
I think a single strand.
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6th May 2021, 5:57 pm | #13 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Which early aerials would have been made of like the overhead telephone wires of the day, along with several "egg" insulators, and a fancy lead in setup.
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7th May 2021, 11:44 am | #14 |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
I've an [unrestored] Marconiphone 292 RG [1934] plus the original instruction leaflet [both are in the North]. I'm pretty sure that it recommends an aerial length over 100'-possibly 130'.
Dave W Bexhill [I've still not come across another 292 anywhere.] |
7th May 2021, 1:58 pm | #15 | |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Quote:
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7th May 2021, 2:07 pm | #16 |
Dekatron
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Well, you can have an 'extraordinary ray' in optics, in particular in double refraction, but I don't think that occurs at radio wavelengths.
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7th May 2021, 2:15 pm | #17 | |
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Quote:
So you are still bound by the terms of a licence you may not even know you posessed. David
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7th May 2021, 3:05 pm | #18 | |
Heptode
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Quote:
Do you have a link to this, as nothing in the paperwork the TV licensing have sent me in the last 15 years makes any mention of a radio license, or any conditions about receiving aerials? |
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7th May 2021, 3:52 pm | #19 | ||
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Quote:
"Normal domestic TV and radio aerials do not need planning permission". It doesn't define "normal" though and the accompanying pictures show just satellite dishes and UHF yagis. https://interactive.planningportal.co.uk/detached-house
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7th May 2021, 5:43 pm | #20 | ||
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Re: Household aerial length limitaion
Quote:
And it seems a bit hard to swallow, too - if somebody looks askance at a radio aerial I've erected, measures it, discovers it's 101 feet, they could say I'm in breach of the licence T's and C's I signed up to on my TV licence application form. But if I DON'T have a TV licence (which I actually don't!) then there's no record of me signing up to any T's and C's; I can't be in breach of my own non-existent agreement; and in these days of GDPR it's opt-in not opt-out. |
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