Teac V770 used at the BBC?

[HECTOR63]

Noticed one at auction site the other day with description of possible use at the BBC and asking price £200.I like the machine and the layout (Bit of a VU meter fan) But the description and price concern me somewhat as to its real value and not supporting Dolby C either!

[Welsh Anorak]

Just because something's been used at the BBC doesn't mean it's of broadcast standard! Many recorders were used for reviewing interviews or copying programmes for non-critcal use. For this a domestic machine fitted the bill well.
In fact, looking at the broadcast items, a Revox PR99 or Uher 4000 from the BBC have usually been modified and seen heavy use so the BBC badge is not a recommendation.
Also that price seems very optimistic. I'd look for a privately owned and looked after machine. There are plently out there by the likes of Sony, Denon, Technics and so on that will be half the price and have Dolby C and HX-pro - and nice flashing VU meters!

[Ted Kendall]

Agreed - domestic kit thrashed in a professional environment isn't necessarily a good second hand buy, and the price is a bit steep. As to Dolby C, I wouldn't worry overmuch, although HX is worth having.

[DMcMahon]

It seems to support Dolby B and Dolby C (double Dolby as Teac refer to it).

[TIMTAPE]

I think "double Dolby" referred to a 3 head deck with separate encode and decode circuits so monitoring a Dolby encoded recording 'off tape' but decoded was possible. In the early days of 3 head decks that was a big deal as the circuitry had to be all discrete and cumbersome and expensive.

[Simondm]

In my day, Dolby B and C were not used on open-reel machines in BBC production areas (1" and 2" multitrack machines being excepted).

We always had a struggle finding quarter-track machines if we needed to play something recorded domestically. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Teac machine or two around, notably places like the Radiophonic Workshop, where rules got a bit bent, or kept just for occasional use. I remember a few occasions where four-track tape machines were used, but the artists usually brought in their own Teac 3340 machines for replay. One reason was alignment - even had we owned any, you couldn't guarantee correct azimuth on anything not recorded in house.

There were also at least three track standards for BBC professional-use 1/4" tape:

• Mono, full-width, used in film location recording,;
• "Stereo", for network radio using "butterfly" heads, pretty much full tape width but those machines had full-width erase heads, so you couldn't split tracks;
• "Twin-track" which had a wide guard band and allowed a split erase head, so tracks could be used separately (for telly mostly).

Don't get me started on mono and stereo pilottone/timecode systems for sync-to-pictures!

Nowadays, the twin-track machines are probably the most useful for general use, but neither they nor the butterfly-headed ones can replay quarter-track domestic tapes! That's even on a B67 which has three speeds (usually 15, 7.5 and 3.75 IPS). That said, most professional machines have space in the headblock area for another head. If you are ingenious, it ought to be possible to add a 1/4-track replay head (or even put it where the erase head ought to be). You have to be conscious of existing wear patterns though. if the tape goes round too tight a radius, it will tend to lift across the head gap (until wear re-profiles it), and affect the HF response, especially at slower speeds (7.5 and 3.75 IPS).

Early on in my career, Ferrographs were the common office listening machines (Series 7 and then Logic 7 IIRC), but A77s and later PR99s were also common.

In Bristol we were almost entirely Studer for 1/4" studio use by around 1982-3: predominantly A80s in radio, but also B62s and B67s since they were more compact. On Radio OB, B67s (transportable version), and sometimes Nagras with outriggers for NAB reels (for carry-ins, but they were fiddly to set up). Our centre was pretty much committed to Studer/Revox and Nagra, so anything not from that stable would have been a nuisance because of maintenance support. London radio (both BH and Bush, IIRC) had a lot of Telefunken machines, which the Studio Managers liked. I didn't use them enough to get over my enthusiasm for A80s!

TV and radio studio machines were quite different beasts, even though they were superficially simlar models. Commonly, but not always, a TV B62 or B67 let you record independently on the twin tracks, and the trolley had two P&G slider faders so you could output separately. Radio was always stereo, with one fader knob or slider doing both channels (same as Grams units) - any channel-splitting or combining usually happened at the mixing desk.

A domestic 1/4 track machine would playback a BBC stereo tape correctly (albeit at least 3dB low off-tape), but was a PITA to edit on, as the physical vertical gap between the replay heads meant that cut edits would swing nastily between the speakers - an effect greatly reduced when using a machine with the proper heads. Also BBC standard tape had a thick base layer and was fairly inflexible and abrasive (equivalent to Agfa PEM 468 - we bought Zonal for a lot of the 1980s though, IIRC). And the oxide side wasn't very polished either. Domestic machines usually had insufficient back-tension to handle it well - edits would bump going over heads and past a pinch roller.

Producers who liked to edit insert tapes (Uher/Nagra location recordings, usually) in their offices preferred them to have proper heads (even though they really weren't supposed to do stereo editing at all!).

Aside: BBC machines were aligned differently to most domestic and commercial machines, using a lower flux density, of 200 nWb/m, CCIR curve. IIRC, the bias was also set too low to correctly record on Ampex stock, giving hissy results if you tried it casually. Obviously, anothe side effect was that BBC tapes would replay "too low" on commercial and domestic machines, even if they had the correct heads.

Back at 1/4-track: There's also the whole field of tape logging - BBC monitoring service (Caversham), and the station logging done by local radio etc. I think used slow-speed machines - I think rack-mounted A77s, etc. These would most likely have been 1/4 track to save tape, but i have no direct experience of any of this, as I didn't work in either part of the organisation.

If I was buying an ex-BBC open reel machine now, I'd try to go for a B67 - they were well built and reliable in service, and there are many common parts with other Studer/Revox models. Operationally, I loved A80s, especially to edit on (although B67s and B62s were also quick), but they are a bit like keeping a Great Dane or an Irish Wolfhound - intrusive house pets, and if with the BBC output "cassette" on the RHS, simply too unwieldy to have domestically (IMHO).

Cue pics of many A80s in various living-rooms...

S.

Quick PS: Dolby B: never used for 1/4" purposes. Dolby C - I *think* occasionally found on multitracks, but HX and S were more likely (after Dolby A, which went on forever).

[HECTOR63]

Thanks for the replies Folks-yes spot on with all the views definitely not what its listing realistically has employed in the past specially with the wieldy used term 'BBC'. If the BBC had of used tapes during those days they would have been professional end Tascam Nakamichi etc. Its just a nicely presented piece of home hifi but rather overpriced and probably needs full service and belts at that age and hopefully not recapped as so many are and mostly unnecessary unless swollen or showing faults related to were and tear. But it was worth a peak and thanks for the advices along the way.

[jamesperrett]

Originally Posted by Simondm

Quick PS: Dolby B: never used for 1/4" purposes. Dolby C - I *think* occasionally found on multitracks, but HX and S were more likely (after Dolby A, which went on forever).

Dolby B was probably never used at the BBC for 1/4" but it was available as an optional extra for the Revox B77 and there were other domestic machines that incorporated it. Dolby C was used by Fostex narrow format multitracks - I don't think the BBC would have used those. Dolby S was used by later Fostex and Tascam narrow format multitracks but, again, I would be surprised if the BBC used them. The only professionally used Dolby systems were A and SR but Ted Kendall would be most likely to know which were used by the BBC.

However, all this is probably a diversion as the machine we are discussing is a fairly standard (apart from the 3 heads) domestic hifi cassette deck.

[Ted Kendall]

Originally Posted by jamesperrett

However, all this is probably a diversion as the machine we are discussing is a fairly standard (apart from the 3 heads) domestic hifi cassette deck.

Indeed so. All production offices had cassette machines, as did studios for the production of audition tapes, but these were not in the programme chain. No noise reduction was used on quarter inch, as the cost of equipping hundreds of machines would have been prohibitive. Peaking Type 200 tape to 1000 nWb/m gave a very respectable signal to noise ratio, even so. The exception was Transcription Service, which was a small closed system competing directly with record companies on quality. Dolby A was all but universal on multitrack machines across the Corporation, however.