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Old 9th Aug 2020, 11:49 am   #21
FERNSEH
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Default Re: French Multistandard TV’s

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Originally Posted by Synchrodyne View Post
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I was told that a certain manufacturer made a special dual standard TV set for use in Northern France and the Channel Islands. Set could receive 819 and 405 line transmissions.
DFWB.
I understand that the Rediffusion Channel Islands cable TV system included French as well as British TV in the 1950s. So I imagine that Rediffuson offered dual-standard 405/819 receivers.
Cheers,
Or perhaps Rediffusion simply received the 819 line broadcasts and did an optical conversion to 405 lines to permit distribution over the TDUK2 network which was in the 1950s and early '60s a two channel system.

DFWB.
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Old 9th Aug 2020, 9:26 pm   #22
winston_1
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Default Re: French Multistandard TV’s

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You can actually buy dvb-t/t2 with isdb-t tuners built in, presumably for South America. Although the market for dtmb outside china is non existent.
That's interesting. Is this a TV or set top box?

DTMB has now been chosen for Laos.

I've also read Cuba may use it.
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 6:59 am   #23
Synchrodyne
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Default Re: French Multistandard TV’s

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Originally Posted by FERNSEH View Post
Or perhaps Rediffusion simply received the 819 line broadcasts and did an optical conversion to 405 lines to permit distribution over the TDUK2 network which was in the 1950s and early '60s a two channel system.
That does seem a lot more likely. The converted signal would then be available to all existing subscribers without any equipment change being required. Also, the 819 signal would probably have needed severe truncation of its vision bandwidth to go through the HF cable system.

It would be interesting to know the details of the French 819/405 dual-standard receivers used in range of the Channel Islands 405 transmitters. I guess the starting point would be a standard 819 receiver, with 28.05 MHz VIF and 39.2 MHz SIF. Then for 405 you could use common VIF or common SIF.

Common VIF would require a dual-frequency SIF (31.55 and 39.2 MHz), probably not too difficult, with a 31.55 MHz sound trap + low pass switched into the VIF channel on 405. But 405 would also require a steeper Nyquist slope over 28.05 MHz than 819, so more switching required. Common SIF would put 405 VIF at 35.7 MHz, so you’d need a 405 Nyquist filter switched in there, possibly combined with 34.2 MHz adjacent channel trap + high-pass. That looks easier – less switching than the common VIF approach. 3.5 MHz notch switched into the video channel after the detector for both cases. Both positive modulation, so no inversion and switching issues there. Both could use the same black level AGC system which was surely fitted (yeah, right…)


Cheers,
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 9:22 am   #24
patrickgnl
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Default Re: French Multistandard TV’s

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Originally Posted by patrickgnl View Post
You can actually buy dvb-t/t2 with isdb-t tuners built in, presumably for South America. Although the market for dtmb outside china is non existent.
That's interesting. Is this a TV or set top box?

DTMB has now been chosen for Laos.

I've also read Cuba may use it.
Ah yes i had forgotten about Cuba, Laos is of course very near China. I presume countries using it will get massive Chinese subsidies. You can find such STB’s eBay.

Patrick
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 11:47 am   #25
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Default Re: French Multistandard TV’s

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I think Barco was the original equipment manufacturer for Siemens and possibly other German brands Multi/Belgium TV sets.

Also, Philips might have produced Multi/France sets in Italy though that was probably in Monza so not from an "independent" Italian manufacturer.
No, German manufacturer have based there export sets for the Belgian market
on the original German models.
From outside they don´t have a different look, there are a few more controls,
Grundig used a motorized automatic function in 1958 models.
Present in my collection of German TV sets made for de belgian market are:

- Bauknecht (Barco, Bauknecht never build TV sets, well known because of their kitchen stuff)
- Blaupunkt
- Grundig
- Körting (Neckermann)
- Loewe Opta
- Lorenz (Schaub but not Schaub-Lorenz!)
- Nordmende
- Siemens (Belgian model only)
- Telefunken (German and Belgian models, in that special case the Telefunken is a Nordmende!)

not presented but based on the German model:
- Graetz
- Nora
- Tonfunk
- SABA

Regards,
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 11:59 am   #26
German Dalek
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Default Re: French Multi-standard TV’s

I own a rare, must be a Radiobell, TV monitor from about 1954/1955, no idea.
I got this free from the Belgian television (SVT) in Brussels to save it in my collection.
The set in question looks like a standard 17"-70° table TV set in a wooden
cabinet.
It has no channel selector/tuner but is marked as 405 lines monitor!
It seems to be that it was a part of the 405 lines/625 lines converter.
There was no one who could tell me more about it.

Regards,
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Old 10th Aug 2020, 9:06 pm   #27
Maarten
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Default Re: French Multistandard TV’s

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Originally Posted by German Dalek View Post
- Siemens (Belgian model only)
What do you mean by Belgian model only? In the colour era, German Siemens models were usually made by Blaupunkt. Who made them in the b/w era? Nora, then Siemens took over Nora but at some point ceased manufacturing?

I'm pretty sure I have a Barco-made Siemens colour TV set in storage but I can't reach it at this moment. For the B/W era, the "Muiderkring" schematic folders are a good way to determine which sets share the same design and I remember having seen several foreign brands sharing their schematics with Barco models.

Last edited by Maarten; 10th Aug 2020 at 9:12 pm.
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 11:32 am   #28
German Dalek
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Default Re: French Multistandard TV’s

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Originally Posted by Maarten View Post
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Originally Posted by German Dalek View Post
- Siemens (Belgian model only)
What do you mean by Belgian model only? In the colour era, German Siemens models were usually made by Blaupunkt. Who made them in the b/w era? Nora, then Siemens took over Nora but at some point ceased manufacturing?

I'm pretty sure I have a Barco-made Siemens colour TV set in storage but I can't reach it at this moment. For the B/W era, the "Muiderkring" schematic folders are a good way to determine which sets share the same design and I remember having seen several foreign brands sharing their schematics with Barco models.
Maarten, thats right, my collection is based on mainly 50s TV sets. In the 60s/70s/80s Siemens sold
sets under their own name which were made by Blaupunkt.
I have two 1958 WSW (Wiener Schwachstrom Werke) Siemens-Klangfilm-Austria
projection TV sets for the cinema. Inside are the Philips projection chassis.

I know the Muiderkring schematics, have some in my collection, but these
sets in question you discribe has to be 70s sets.
I have an early Barco and a Cobar TV sets, their chassis and parts are
different to the german TV sets. If you open a 50s Telefunken, Graetz,
SABA, Körting, Loewe Opta you will realize the difference.
Only the Cobar is a 4 standard TV receiver.

Regards,
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Old 11th Aug 2020, 12:40 pm   #29
Brigham
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Default Re: French Multistandard TV’s

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Originally Posted by Synchrodyne View Post

...It would be interesting to know the details of the French 819/405 dual-standard receivers used in range of the Channel Islands 405 transmitters. I guess the starting point would be a standard 819 receiver, with 28.05 MHz VIF and 39.2 MHz SIF. Then for 405 you could use common VIF or common SIF...




Cheers,
It would be interesting to try a well-tempered 819 set on the 405-line system as it stands.

It might show just how little needs to be done to resolve a watchable picture.
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