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Old 28th Jul 2020, 2:37 pm   #21
Welsh Anorak
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

Just noticed you have a couple of RS or Dubilier capacitors on one of the pictures. These are obvioulsy replacements, but are likely to be every bit as bad as the originals - also they might not be the correct values. However I expect they were due for replacement!
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Old 28th Jul 2020, 3:28 pm   #22
Graham G3ZVT
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

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Originally Posted by Iontrap View Post
Graham
Thanks for that info.
The card is an Nvidia GT440. HDMI but also back to VGA.
It has Win 10 at the moment but it is spare so I still have 7 or for that matter XP!
I confess I do have the splendid Aurora but your video has inspired me.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Simon
What I can tell you for sure is that a nVidia Quadro NVS 285 will work with XP

and an (AMD) ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT will work with Windows 7 & 10 (and possibly XP too, I haven't tried).

It's not that the OS is incomparable with the card, rather it's the required driver is incompatible with WinModelines

Both these cards are dirt cheap on Ebay, but make sure the DMS-59 - 2X VGA adaptor cable is included.
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Old 29th Jul 2020, 5:44 pm   #23
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

Thanks Graham
I'll give it a go.
Are there any audio/video sync issue you have noted?
Simon
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 9:44 am   #24
Devon60Ben
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

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Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
Just noticed you have a couple of RS or Dubilier capacitors on one of the pictures. These are obvioulsy replacements, but are likely to be every bit as bad as the originals - also they might not be the correct values. However I expect they were due for replacement!
Well spotted and thanks for your message - yes suspect these were replaced some time ago. These have now been changed out. I'm waiting for a few more caps to arrive now and a tube but should be ready to fire this thing up soon and start testing.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 4:35 pm   #25
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

Has anybody mentioned drying out the line transformer before any power ups?

Depending on known history as to whether it was stored in a warm centrally heated house, or in a damp loft or shed.

Getting first light quickly with the minimum of component changing is the only correct way to do things. Once the state of play has been confirmed, the rest of the likely bad capacitors etc. can then be replaced, taking care to avoid mistakes.

Edit: It's 'valves' here in the UK, not 'tubes' - that's the thing the picture is produced on, ie, CRT = cathode ray 'tube'.
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 8:50 pm   #26
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

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Has anybody mentioned drying out the line transformer before any power ups?
A very good point, there are a couple of methods of doing this, either remove the LOPT and put in a warm dry place for a couple of weeks, or pass a current through the overwind,
there is plenty of inf on this forum.

You are lucky that this set uses the later transformer, which is much more reliable than the earlier types.


Mark
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Old 30th Jul 2020, 8:55 pm   #27
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

If the set has been been stored in a spare bedroom (for all intents and purposes a warm place) is this procedure still necessary? My set is the 22A so from what you say must have the later trannie. What would you do in my case?
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 1:17 am   #28
Graham G3ZVT
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

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If the set has been been stored in a spare bedroom (for all intents and purposes a warm place) is this procedure still necessary? My set is the 22a so from what you say must have the later trannie. What would you do in my case?
The way I look at it you may as well do it, because if the LOPTX does go up in smoke, you will kick yourself, and forever wonder if the outcome would be different if you'd heated it up.

There's plenty to do on a restoration before you need the LOPTX installed. A 12v wall-wart PSU will drive 40mA through typical 300R overwind according to Mr Ohm, just leave it hooked up as long as you can.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 8:44 am   #29
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

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Quote:
Has anybody mentioned drying out the line transformer before any power ups?
A very good point, there are a couple of methods of doing this, either remove the LOPT and put in a warm dry place for a couple of weeks, or pass a current through the overwind,
there is plenty of inf on this forum.

You are lucky that this set uses the later transformer, which is much more reliable than the earlier types.


Mark
Thanks for the heads up ref potentially needing to dry out the LOPT - why would it need removal though?
It's been in a warm house for 3 weeks at least - would that be sufficient time to dry out? Will ask where it has been stored before that.
Thanks
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 4:12 pm   #30
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

The Line output transformer will have absorbed moisture from the air over the last 60 or so years, its a very gradual process even when stored within a house. using the method described above will introduce heat in the winding which will drive the moisture out, it can take several days.
The effect you would see if the transformer was saturated would be the raster getting darker and darker until it's not visible anymore because the EHT is being damped because of the moisture.
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Old 31st Jul 2020, 5:49 pm   #31
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

Great advice that must be followed to get a result. Surprisingly bedrooms can be quite damp due to exhalation of breath during the night especially in the winter. Much better of course than a cold loft or damp shed but you still have to take precautions.
The 'A' version is very nice. We have an example at the museum brought back to life by my partner in crime Peter Sanders. [Petertheorgan] It's very crisp and bright. You don't see many of this version with the completely revised circuit and layout. John.
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Old 5th Aug 2020, 8:19 am   #32
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

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The Line output transformer will have absorbed moisture from the air over the last 60 or so years, its a very gradual process even when stored within a house. using the method described above will introduce heat in the winding which will drive the moisture out, it can take several days.
My TV32 has the same LOPT, my set was literately a barn find, so passing a current through the overwind was called for.
You only have to remove the transformer if you go down the route of drying it out in the airing cupboard for a few weeks, personally I prefer leaving it in situ and applying current from my bench PSU.


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Old 5th Aug 2020, 1:27 pm   #33
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

They certainly absorb moisture, as in a lot of cases the pitch is cracked for starters.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 7:30 pm   #34
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Default Bush TV22A Restarted Restoration

Lots of excuses why I parked this for 9 months but none of interest. But the previous thread is closed so will start a new one as i will still need lots of help please.

Anyway over the last couple of weeks I have completed the recapping and fired the set up for the first time (slowly of course).

Fortunately so far there is no smoke and all the valves are lit up and the tube is showing a very bright raster - although quite off centre - about 20% of the tube lacks coverage on the right.

Suspecting some resistors have drifted in value so will check these next and see if this is the cause of the position issue.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 8:02 pm   #35
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restarted Restoration

You can ask the moderators to reopen the thread (they don't bite)! Possibly even combine this one with the old thread and close this??
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 10:29 pm   #36
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

Thread reopened thanks to a suggestion by Sideband

Cheers

Mike T
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 10:53 pm   #37
Graham G3ZVT
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restarted Restoration

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Originally Posted by Devon60Ben View Post
Lots of excuses why I parked this for 9 months but none of interest. But the previous thread is closed so will start a new one as i will still need lots of help please.

Anyway over the last couple of weeks I have completed the recapping and fired the set up for the first time (slowly of course).

Fortunately so far there is no smoke and all the valves are lit up and the tube is showing a very bright raster - although quite off centre - about 20% of the tube lacks coverage on the right.

Suspecting some resistors have drifted in value so will check these next and see if this is the cause of the position issue.
First light then, congratulations, I knew this would be a success.

Don't worry about the off-centre raster, it would be a miracle if it didn't need some adjustment after 60 years. Have you acquainted yourself with the ion-trap, centring magnet and focus magnet yet?
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 8:58 am   #38
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

Hi Ben,
That's great that you've had first light. I'm with everyone else on this, try moving the ion trap magnet first to see if that cures your picture shift/corner shadowing issues.

Back i the day when I had my own website, (Andy Valve's website), I used to recommend the TV22A over the TV22 for ease of restoration, due to the reliability of the line output transformer and the absence of the TV22's fragile frame blocking oscillator transformer.

I've restored a few TV22s, but only one TV22A. The performance seemed to be pretty much the same as the TV22, the only difference being the reliability.
BTW, the next evolution of the design, the TV43 (I have a similar T36) kept the nice line output transformer, but inexplicably brought back the nasty frame blocking oscillator transformer and had a frame output transformer with the same primary winding as the unreliable one from the TV12. The TV43 series are really different to get apart for servicing due to the tuning controls on the side of the RF unit. I'm glad that Bush had the sense not to persist with it and instead came up with the excellent TV53/56/62 chassis. As such it was the end of the TV22s stacked chassis layout, but better suited to the larger CRTs that were cabinet mounted as opposed to chassis mounted.

Anyway, all of that waffle was a way of saying that in my opinion, the TV22A was Bush's best stacked chassis. design.

Cheers
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 12:41 pm   #39
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
Thread reopened thanks to a suggestion by Sideband

Cheers

Mike T
thanks for reopening and keeping it all together
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 12:43 pm   #40
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Default Re: Bush TV22A Restarted Restoration

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devon60Ben View Post
Lots of excuses why I parked this for 9 months but none of interest. But the previous thread is closed so will start a new one as i will still need lots of help please.

Anyway over the last couple of weeks I have completed the recapping and fired the set up for the first time (slowly of course).

Fortunately so far there is no smoke and all the valves are lit up and the tube is showing a very bright raster - although quite off centre - about 20% of the tube lacks coverage on the right.

Suspecting some resistors have drifted in value so will check these next and see if this is the cause of the position issue.
First light then, congratulations, I knew this would be a success.

Don't worry about the off-centre raster, it would be a miracle if it didn't need some adjustment after 60 years. Have you acquainted yourself with the ion-trap, centring magnet and focus magnet yet?
I wondered what those 2 levers were for - tried moving from side to side to see what effect they had but didn't know exactly why they were having some effect. They did open and close the shadows a bit but not entirely. Would resistor drift be the likely reason for being off centre if it can't be brought back with magnet adjustment?
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