Telegraph poles: historical data?

[short wave]

Hi found this in "Newnes engineer`s reference book"(1947) the page is not even listed in the index! if you want a better scan let me know
regards S-W

[Herald1360]

Better would be helpful. Right way up too if possible

[russell_w_b]

I've added eight pages of telegraph pole guff as a PDF from 'Modern Electrical Engineering' (1918) to the Facebook group as a file - At 8 MB, it's too big to go on here.

If anyone would like a copy, PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send it you.

[Synchrodyne]

In respect of twisting, as I recall from observation of NZ telephone poles and wires many years ago, a given pair would alternate amongst four insulator positions forming a “square” on two cross arms. Short crossarms accommodated a square on each side of the pole; long crossarms accommodated two squares each side.

So for example, starting with the two wires respectively at TL (top left) and BR (bottom right) on the square, at the next pole that would move to TR and BL respectively, then to BR and TL, then to BL and TR, then back to TL and BR. It was easier to see this when a single pair extension was made down a road. Then the poles had two short crossarms (two insulators each side) to enable the twisting, even just for the one circuit. Open wire subscriber drops were not usually twisted, parallel pairs being used, although somewhere around 1960 give or take, it was more usual to see twisted cable drops from open-wire streetside lines. I am not sure if the trunk lines followed the twisting pattern. They had larger insulators (often cream-coloured it seemed) on longer crossarms.

Cheers,

[emeritus]

Here's some info on insulators, poles, and ironwork from the GEC catalogues of 1893 and 1914. Also the rather brief entry on telegraphs from the 1899 "Molesworth" pocket book, which does show two types of telegraph pole in cross-section. The GEC catalogues do not illustrate poles, but the 1893 catalogue does give dimensions and prices.

[echelon]

All fascinating information, many thanks for the responses. Do I interpret the comment above, correctly, that there is a Facebook instance of this forum, which would allow the viewing of an 8MB file?

I'll post soon regarding the somewhat-mysterious remnant telegraph poles visible along part of the Glenogle viaduct railway route, now part of the Rob Roy Way cycle path. In essence, the height/wood stock both appear to be much smaller/lighter than I'd've expected from the golden age of steam, especially in an inhospitible, high and exposed part of the world. I think I took some pictures (without scale references, though), shall try and sort that

[Herald1360]

There is a Facebook page (?) related to this forum. I found it eventually by searcing in Facebook for "UK Vintage Radio..."

Don't forget to don your anorak before reading all about poles

I vaguely remember some reference to its setup on here a few years back.

[space charge]

poles generally came in 3 sizes light , medium , or stout. your railway poles may be of the light variety. the bottom of the pole ie the (sole of the pole) was stamped with one to three crowns later to become harps in ireland signifying one for light 2 for medium and 3 for stout. pierce ei7ka

[russell_w_b]

I've re-scanned the pole stuff I put on the FB page (I'd done it in greyscale) in Black and White, and it will now go on here.

Voila!

[radiotechnician]

Chapter XLII , of TELEPHONY, McMeen and Miller, American Technical
Society, Chicago, C. 1912 1nd 1922, is titled Poles and Pole Fittings. pp.
697 to 756.

This chapter covers standard practice in that era, and details the use
of the fittings and methods.

If this book exists in your library system stacks, perhaps it could be
borrowed. I have a copy bought used about 50 years ago, but others
have appeared on E-bay and sold for small money.

The thumbnail is representative of chapter content.

[Heatercathodeshort]

Telegraph and electricity poles are all dated. they are carved into the pole around 6ft from the ground. Typical markings would be: [Old poles]

30 [feet]
M [medium duty] L = Light duty. H = Heavy duty.
48 [1948]
GPO [Post Office Telephones]

Be warned, looking for the carvings becomes a fettish and a risk to life!
The oldest phone pole I have discovered is 1936. [Belmont Surrey]
The electricity poles around here were mostly dated 1945-1949 but a lot have been replaced recently. John.

[space charge]

its at the ten foot mark on the pole from the bottom thepole can be 3 1/2 feet in the ground so it appears somewhere near eye level. pierce ei7ka

[echelon]

All very helpful information, many thanks to forum members, excellent details.

I shall try and get some decent pictures of the curiously-lightweight poles languishing at the side of the Glenogle viaduct (and attempt to count any impressed crowns visible near their base!)

[space charge]

only visible if the pole is uprooted. its the actual flat end it sits on. ei7ka

[Pellseinydd]

Originally Posted by OscarFoxtrot

Atkinson's "Telephony", Vol. 1, has about 80 pages on The Construction Of Aerial Lines. (Actual details will depend on edition.)

None of my editions of Atkinson's 'Telephony' have any overhead in then. Do you mean its predecessor - Herbert & Procter's 'Telephony' of which Atkinson's was an updated version. Poole's 'Practical Telephone Handbook' from its fist edition of 1891 through to the seventh edition of c1936 has the same drawings which later appeared in Herbert's 'Telegraphy' and Herbert & Procter's 'Telephony' Vol 1. Other books which I have which cover overhead lines include the 1869 'Electric Telegraph' by Dr Lardner, 'Instruction in Army Telegraphy and Telephony - Vol 2 - Lines' dated 1909 updated 1914 and the GPO Engineering Department's 'Technical Instructions Vol XIII, The Construction of Aerial Lines' as well as the later volumes of GPO Engineering Instructions covering Overhead Line plant. If there is anything specific you are after, PM me but to scan the lot would take a week or more

Ian
CNet 0352 2345
MR ETD 053-6278

[short wave]

as requested...
regards S-W

[emeritus]

My copy of Machinery's "Guide to World Screw Threads", 1969 edition, has this to say about the Cordeaux thread:

" The Cordeaux thread derives its name from John Henry Cordeaux who in 1877 obtained a patent for using cup insulators with an internal thread. Before this invention, insulators were provided with grouted-in iron stems and difficulty was encountered in removing the rusted-on nuts from the lower end of the stem. Cordeaux's patent overcame this. It is believed that the first Cordeaux thread was cut in wood by hand and then copied, a process wich apparently unintentionally gave the thread unequal flank angles, viz. 35 and 29 degrees. When the B.S. 16 was prepared in 1937, so many insulators were in service that for the purpose of interchangeability, the old thread form was retained. "

[AC/HL]

Reopened by request.

[upthepole]

Originally Posted by echelon

Does anyone on this excellent forum have awareness of any website with indexed pictures and technical details of telegraph/telephone poles?

I am thinking in particular of UK historical types, from their inception right up to the present day.

I'm also looking to learn more about the differing historical types of insulators, metalwork, foot-stands, multiple cross-spars, wood dimensions etc.

Does such an information resource exist? Or do I detect 'number unobtainable'?

As a, belated, follow on I wonder if you can help date these two images from the poles [see file captions for location, © source, etc]. Everything else tells me they are between about 1875 and 1915 as a guess. I'm not sure if the TPAS is a relaiable source of infor or not!
The two files are at
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...jZVNWdqaGEwaVE
and at
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...GVTWG5SSDB0MDA
where I shall leave them for a time.
Thanks, Colin

[dave walsh]

I was a Clerk in the Post Office Supplies Department, Boyle Street, Cheetham Hill, Manchester in 1969. It was really the HGV Depot and garage for local engineers work vans. Drivers were usually away all week. Museum.The supplies were cable and the like. It's still there as a Transport Museum and in fact, they gave an old TV set to a Forum member a few years ago as it didn't fit with their collection.

One of the HGV Drivers took part in an open entry GPO exam for a "post" as Tree Inspector. To our amazement, he got the job. The primary requirements were an ability in mental arithmetic and an interest in outdoor pursuits [he kept horses]. He was then in a senior, salaried Civil Service position. This was considered to be a very responsible role as collapsing telephone poles would be not be assett to the service and it was taken very seriously by the management. I think he had to visit Sweden three or four times a year to approve the quality of wood they bought in.

He wasn't as young as me but probaly only late twenties, very pleased to leave the lorry behind and be paid for the sort of thing he did in his free time. It was as if he had won the pools to his fellow workers. A lot of people had applied to do the exam so he had "climbed the greasy pole" to success! Anyone who held that position would be a mine of info. I recall being amazed when he described all the different technical aspects involved with T Poles but I can't recall any of it now. In fact, I'd thought the whole thing was a bit of a joke ..at first that is.

Dave W