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Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:43 pm   #1
Umpa2016
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Default Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Hi,
I have a early TX9 chassis PC1001 with the UPC1365 chroma chip, the red is not very strong and take a while to warm up, and was wondering if anyone could give me pointers on what might be the cause ?

I have tweaked the red gain and background to get it as good as it is, but its still not good enough.

T.I.A
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:49 pm   #2
Nickthedentist
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

I suppose we have to suspect the tube too. Is there any flaring on highlights etc?
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 12:52 pm   #3
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

No, it all looks ok to me, just red takes time to 'warm up' and never really gets bright enough. Also I forgot to mention there is a slight wobble to the picture. I don't know if its related.

Edit:- I am not a TV engineer, I just thought I would mention this in case it gets technical and I ask you to explain in simpler terms.

I am very grateful for any info you give,

Last edited by Umpa2016; 29th Jun 2020 at 12:58 pm.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 1:14 pm   #4
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

It does sound tubey, the tx9 was a mixed bag for tubes. Swap one of the RGB leads over to see if that perks the red up, were the output transistors on the crt base? can't remember! Does the picture gradually improve when the set has been on for say 10 minutes? A picture may help.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 1:23 pm   #5
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

No it does not make any sounds - whines or squeals. It warms up and after about 10 mins the red is there, but its not as good as the rest of the colours.

FWIW I did try to take a picture, but for some reason it looks ok on the phone, I guess the phone is more sensitive to red.

Just to clarify, this is a tube and chassis - its not really a TV its an arcade game that just happens to use a TV chassis as a monitor.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 1:51 pm   #6
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

One way to see if it is the tube low emission would be to temporarily link out the heater resistor
This will make the heaters brighter and improve the emission if the tube is low.
Follow the two heater wires from the tube base to the main PCB I think they may be brown and or black. one will go to the Line output transformer earth the other through the heater resistor to a pin on the lopt.
Usually the resistor is blue and flat standing upright and to the left of the lopt. It will be only a few ohms. it may not be the only one of that type though so make sure you get the right one. If you have a circuit you should be able to find it on the diagram and then check the part number on the PCB.
If shorting it improves the red and the warm up time it looks as if it is the red gun low emission. You may be able to improve the tube by fitting a lower value resistor. for example try halving the value of what is fitted. I wouldn't leave the resistor shorted out though as the tube may not last too long like that.
You may find if you run it for a while with the resistor shorted that the emission is still good when the short is removed especially if the tube has been dormant for an extended period.

Rich
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 2:07 pm   #7
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

What's the make and type number of the tube? As said above, some were shorter lived than others.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 3:10 pm   #8
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by slidertogrid View Post
One way to see if it is the tube low emission would be to temporarily link out the heater resistor
This will make the heaters brighter and improve the emission if the tube is low.
Follow the two heater wires from the tube base to the main PCB I think they may be brown and or black. one will go to the Line output transformer earth the other through the heater resistor to a pin on the lopt.
Usually the resistor is blue and flat standing upright and to the left of the lopt. It will be only a few ohms. it may not be the only one of that type though so make sure you get the right one. If you have a circuit you should be able to find it on the diagram and then check the part number on the PCB.
If shorting it improves the red and the warm up time it looks as if it is the red gun low emission. You may be able to improve the tube by fitting a lower value resistor. for example try halving the value of what is fitted. I wouldn't leave the resistor shorted out though as the tube may not last too long like that.
You may find if you run it for a while with the resistor shorted that the emission is still good when the short is removed especially if the tube has been dormant for an extended period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
What's the make and type number of the tube? As said above, some were shorter lived than others.
First thanks to all - your help is appreciated.

Sadly there is no info on the tube, all I can say is that it looks to be an original.

Fortunately I did manage to get a copy of the original service manual for this exact chassis.
To help you all help me please look at the links I have posted of the manual - these show the circuit and component layout.

Also there is a picture of the tube - in the hope you can identify it.

Board Trace
Component Side


Neck Wires
Neck Wires to Board
The Tube

Last edited by Umpa2016; 29th Jun 2020 at 3:19 pm.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 3:29 pm   #9
dazzlevision
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiba tony View Post
Swap one of the RGB leads over to see if that perks the red up, were the output transistors on the CRT base? can't remember!

On this chassis, the RGB output stages are on the main board, unlike the "big brother" TX10 chassis.

Your TX9 chassis doesn't look like it's fitted into a Ferguson TV!

Last edited by dazzlevision; 29th Jun 2020 at 3:38 pm.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 3:33 pm   #10
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Hi
R706 on the tube base is your man - it feeds the CRT heaters. If its value is low, say under 2.2 ohms, you can short it out to see what effect this has on your reds. If they improve, then the CRT is worn.
Alternatively, as the decoder IC doesn't have auto-greyscale, you could swap the red and (say) green leads over on the CRT base and see whether this gives a better red. If not, then it's definitely a faulty CRT.
That's a Mullard CRT, I think. What size is it? This chassis would drive 14 - 22" tubes, of which the 14" were the longest lived, possibly because they were in portable sets and hence used less.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 3:35 pm   #11
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
On this chassis, the RGB output stages are on the main board, unlike the "big brother" TX10 chassis.
Yeah @slidertogrid said earlier. I just thought I would show you the info I have, before I pull the board out and take a proper look. Sadly the board needs to be totally removed before anything can be done to it as far as I can tell so its going to be quite a labour of love I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
R706 on the tube base is your man - it feeds the CRT heaters. If its value is low, say under 2.2 ohms, you can short it out to see what effect this has on your reds. If they improve, then the CRT is worn.
Alternatively, as the decoder IC doesn't have auto-greyscale, you could swap the red and (say) green leads over on the CRT base and see whether this gives a better red. If not, then it's definitely a faulty CRT.
That's a Mullard CRT, I think. What size is it? This chassis would drive 14 - 22" tubes, of which the 14" were the longest lived, possibly because they were in portable sets and hence used less.
Thanks for the info - I thinks its 20" it's hard to measure because I cant get to the front of the screen, and being in an arcade it will have had some hammer - but there is no screen burn in - so I don't know.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 3:46 pm   #12
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Isn't there a "service position" whereby the chassis can be temporarily supported vertically, so that you can get access to both sides easily enough?
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 4:19 pm   #13
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
R706 on the tube base is your man - it feeds the CRT heaters. If its value is low, say under 2.2 ohms, you can short it out to see what effect this has on your reds. If they improve, then the CRT is worn.
Alternatively, as the decoder IC doesn't have auto-greyscale, you could swap the red and (say) green leads over on the CRT base and see whether this gives a better red. If not, then it's definitely a faulty CRT.
That's a Mullard CRT, I think. What size is it? This chassis would drive 14 - 22" tubes, of which the 14" were the longest lived, possibly because they were in portable sets and hence used less.
Ok I shorted R706 and the red came up straight away.
The resistor is 2.1 Ohm. What type of package is that resistor ?

Is there anything I can do to keep it without burning the tube out ? Perhaps putting a 1.5 Ohm in ? Or am I best just leaving it as is and letting it warm up for 20 mins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickthedentist View Post
Isn't there a "service position" whereby the chassis can be temporarily supported vertically, so that you can get access to both sides easily enough?
Not that I can see this is in a pacman arcade cabinet.
Chassis Pic
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 4:43 pm   #14
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Right - your CRT is low and it probably is an A51-580X. Two options. Either you can get it boosted, or, ideally, cleaned and balanced by a BK machine. Maybe someone near you has one - I'm a bit far away!
Otherwise the resistor could be reduced in value until you get a satisfactory picture. What value is it? Should say on it, maybe 1R8, 2R7, something of that nature. When we know what value it is, we could suggest or even supply a suitable replacement.
I must stress that either of these methods are only a temproary fix and the CRT is on its way out. However given that fact, you've really nothing to lose. Luckily you won't need to remove the chassis as you just need access to the CRT base.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 4:43 pm   #15
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzlevision View Post
Your TX9 chassis doesn't look like it's fitted into a Ferguson TV!
That's because it isn't I did say in post 5, but it is still a TX9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak View Post
Right - your CRT is low and it probably is an A51-580X. Two options. Either you can get it boosted, or, ideally, cleaned and balanced by a BK machine. Maybe someone near you has one - I'm a bit far away!
Otherwise the resistor could be reduced in value until you get a satisfactory picture. What value is it? Should say on it, maybe 1R8, 2R7, something of that nature. When we know what value it is, we could suggest or even supply a suitable replacement.
I must stress that either of these methods are only a temproary fix and the CRT is on its way out. However given that fact, you've really nothing to lose. Luckily you won't need to remove the chassis as you just need access to the CRT base.
On the resistor is says :- TFPS6V 2R0 10% 80/47
What type of resistor is this ? Never seen one like it before.
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 4:49 pm   #16
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Is it one of those flat, rectangular blue ones?
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 4:59 pm   #17
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Yes its this one in the pic
resistor Pic 1

Resistor pic 2
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 5:42 pm   #18
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

The resistor is a 2 Ohm thick film type. you can try either replacing it with a 1 Ohm wire-wound resistor around 4 watt or you can put another 2 Ohm resistor in parallel with it which will have the same effect.
Then run the monitor for a few hours and then try 2 ohms again. if the picture is not satisfactory try a 1.5 ohm resistor and if that cures it leave that in. if not good enough go back to a 1 ohm and if still not good enough go back to shorting it out. you are looking to get a satisfactory display at minimum reduction . If you end up shorting it out the tube will probably be ok if not used for hours and hours on end.
At the end of the day you have nothing to lose...
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Old 29th Jun 2020, 7:48 pm   #19
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Thanks I'll let you know how I get on.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 9:29 am   #20
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Default Re: Ferguson TX9 Chassis

Just to let you all know - I bought a B&K Analyser and rejuvenator that was going on eBay.
I will have a bash at using that. Then if that does not work and I don't blow it up I will do the resistor hack. Worst case is I have to buy a new TV to put in the arcade if it all goes pear shaped I guess.
I am trying to keep this thing as original as I can, Its part of British arcade gaming history.
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