UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio and TV Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 4th Nov 2019, 9:55 am   #1
'LIVEWIRE?'
Rest in Peace
 
'LIVEWIRE?''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton)
Posts: 7,306
Exclamation Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Reading the 'Missing....and Found column in last Saturday's Daily Mail, aline caught my eye. The line in question is 'Watching England beat West Germany in the 1966 World Cup Final on Derek's colour TV'(in Kingston upon Thames ) Surely the writer's memory is at fault here, because, unless I'm mistaken Colour TV Broadcasts didn't start in the UK until mid 1968.
'LIVEWIRE?' is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 10:03 am   #2
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 8,923
Default Re: Colour TV in UJ in 1966-surely not!!

You are correct as colour started on BBC2 only with I think Wimbledon in 1968.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Archivist and Member V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 10:08 am   #3
Panrock
Nonode
 
Panrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Worcestershire, UK.
Posts: 2,525
Default Re: Colour TV in UJ in 1966-surely not!!

Colour started on BBC2 in 1967. I believe Wimbledon in 1966 was televised, but not transmitted, in colour as a training exercise.

Steve
Panrock is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 10:15 am   #4
'LIVEWIRE?'
Rest in Peace
 
'LIVEWIRE?''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton)
Posts: 7,306
Default Re: Colour TV in UJ in 1966-surely not!!

Thanks for confirming that I was basically right, if a year adrift, HB & Steve. I wonder how many other readers spotted that error! Perhaps the '66 World Cup final was filmed in colour, and shown later on BBC2?
'LIVEWIRE?' is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 11:03 am   #5
Graham G3ZVT
Dekatron
 
Graham G3ZVT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 18,675
Default Re: Colour TV in UJ in 1966-surely not!!

A pedent, such as myself, might point out that the article said the match was viewed on a colour set, not that it was in colour.
__________________
--
Graham.
G3ZVT
Graham G3ZVT is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 11:20 am   #6
Peter.N.
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 3,601
Default Re: Colour TV in UJ in 1966-surely not!!

I remember seeing colour sets at the radio show much earlier but I think they were NTSC. The were making experimental colour transmissions on BBC for some time before it started officially.

Peter
Peter.N. is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 11:30 am   #7
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Colour TV in UJ in 1966-surely not!!

According to the quote he could have been watching a transmission/video of it some years later than 1966 on a CTV.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 12:05 pm   #8
'LIVEWIRE?'
Rest in Peace
 
'LIVEWIRE?''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: N.W. Oxfordshire(Chipping Norton)
Posts: 7,306
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

You're obviously right, Graham-it doesn't actually say they watched the match in colour. Equally, Lawrence, you could be right, if, as I surmised, the match was filmed in colour.
'LIVEWIRE?' is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 12:56 pm   #9
paulsherwin
Moderator
 
paulsherwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posts: 27,786
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

The colour film of the 1966 World Cup was done for the Pathe News newsreel shown in cinemas. The BBC broadcast coverage was B&W.
paulsherwin is online now  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 1:22 pm   #10
Reelman
Octode
 
Reelman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rotherham, South Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 1,701
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

As an aside....
I saw the match live, whilst on holiday in Italy on a B/W telly in a bar. When the match finished the German and English fans watching took off and swopped their shirts!

Peter
Reelman is online now  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 1:35 pm   #11
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

I watched it in my bedroom on my old HMV 1845 405 tv which I'd "converted" to 625.

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 1:43 pm   #12
Dave Moll
Dekatron
 
Dave Moll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Cumbria (CA13), UK
Posts: 6,118
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

I had, unusually for me, been following the world cup on the television up to and including the semi-final, but I was on a coach heading off on holiday in Devon at the time of the final, so the passengers were gathered around a transistor radio in the back of the coach listening to the commentary, turning the radio each time the sound faded as the direction of travel changed, so I never got to see it, even in monochrome.
__________________
Mending is better than Ending (cf Brave New World by Aldous Huxley)
Dave Moll is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 1:51 pm   #13
Nickthedentist
Dekatron
 
Nickthedentist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oxford, UK.
Posts: 17,820
Default Re: Colour TV in UJ in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rambo1152 View Post
A pedent, such as myself, might point out that the article said the match was viewed on a colour set, not that it was in colour.
Looks like I'm more pedantic than you
Nickthedentist is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 3:23 pm   #14
Heatercathodeshort
Dekatron
 
Heatercathodeshort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 9,145
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
I watched it in my bedroom on my old HMV 1845 405 tv which I'd "converted" to 625.Lawrence.
Did you convert the 1845 to dual standard Lawrence? The 1966 World Cup was transmitted in 1966 on BBC1, three years before BBC1 went over to 625.
It gets more confusing every minute! Regards, John.
Heatercathodeshort is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 3:31 pm   #15
ms660
Dekatron
 
ms660's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 13,454
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
I watched it in my bedroom on my old HMV 1845 405 tv which I'd "converted" to 625.Lawrence.
Did you convert the 1845 to dual standard Lawrence? The 1966 World Cup was transmitted in 1966 on BBC1, three years before BBC1 went over to 625.
It gets more confusing every minute! Regards, John.
No, I converted it from 405 to 625 UHF only, never did get the width quite right (no surprise there) but the pic resolution was good, sound slightly buzzy but was ok for me, I thought the coverage was transmitted on BBC1 and BBC2 at the same time.....? You got me thinking now

Lawrence.
ms660 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 4:04 pm   #16
Oldmadham
Pentode
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Perth, Western Australia, Australia.
Posts: 199
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

i believe the UK went to colour in 1967---Oz went in 1975, some 8 years later.

In the leadup to the changeover in Australia, it was common practice to transmit Chroma, but not send colour bursts, so it would appear as B&W on a colour TV.

A few clever lads (maybe lasses as well), found they could produce colour with this signal using a "chroma lock" circuit which locked to the picture chroma.

This varied in complexity from a box with a full PCB of components, down to a CR network tacked across some appropriate part of a Philips K9 CTV.

At the TV site where I worked, we were hard at work, trying to drag our 1959 Marconi TV transmitters into the "colour era", so were interested in what our signals looked like in colour.

As well as the rack mounted test receiver, we had a domestic Philips K9 fed from a probe point on the antenna feed.

We performed the mod on this, & after a bit of fiddling, were rewarded with a nice colour picture.

There was one problem, sometimes it would lock up "out of phase", so when watching "Pot Black", the felt was brown, whilst the woodwork & players were green!

I don't think we were spectacularly more inventive in Oz, so there is the distinct possibility that someone may have used the same trick in 1966 in the UK.
Oldmadham is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 4:23 pm   #17
cheerfulcharlie
Heptode
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 708
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

The BBC used colour cameras on the 1966 General Election because there was US interests in it at the time.

ATV recorded a short special with the victorious 1966 World Cup team in colour for posterity..but that probably got lost when Lew Grade lost control.

Also for posterity was an ATV colour tribute to raise awareness for Aberfan with many notable Welsh celebrities...this apparently now only survives as a betamax copy that an engineer recorded when ATV lost it's franchise.
cheerfulcharlie is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 4:30 pm   #18
dave walsh
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ramsbottom (Nr Bury) Lancs or Bexhill (Nr Hastings) Sussex.
Posts: 5,814
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Re your post 12 * Dave, the World Cup Game has been shown complete several times over the years [in the original monochrome]. My first hit on You Tube was a 2006 Doc "How England Won The World Cup" in glorious [35mm film?] full colour! It's probaly there in the original broadcast grey as well. I've referred on previous threads to what WAS happening in 1966 ie an in-house experiment by the Beeb to compare 405 and 625 line colour images. This was covered in Wireless world and it was clear that only technical staff could see much difference, although it was reported as a "win" for 625. Despite being brought up in a football household, I was never really interested. I recall thinking then that result would have been more impressive if not on the home ground and following extended "extra" time.

Dave W

Slightly OT but a discussion on R4 recently had someone naively reminding us
that interest rates as high as 17% used to be common. In fact they were extraordinary during the 2nd WW and the fifties/sixties-peaking at 98%. I don't think he knew about the Beatles 1966 song "Taxman" either "If 5% might seem too small-be grateful I don't take it all!" George Harrison was not amused!

Last edited by dave walsh; 4th Nov 2019 at 4:39 pm.
dave walsh is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 5:06 pm   #19
Davewantsone
Hexode
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wigan, Greater Manchester, UK.
Posts: 291
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ms660 View Post
I watched it in my bedroom on my old HMV 1845 405 tv which I'd "converted" to 625.Lawrence.
Did you convert the 1845 to dual standard Lawrence? The 1966 World Cup was transmitted in 1966 on BBC1, three years before BBC1 went over to 625.
It gets more confusing every minute! Regards, John.
No, I converted it from 405 to 625 UHF only, never did get the width quite right (no surprise there) but the pic resolution was good, sound slightly buzzy but was ok for me, I thought the coverage was transmitted on BBC1 and BBC2 at the same time.....? You got me thinking now

Lawrence.
I seem to remember but I could be wrong as I was quite young at the time , BBC2 did transmit the World Cup Final in 1966 as well as BBC1. They also had different pictures so maybe different cameras. Most of Europe would want a 625 line feed of the match so maybe the 625 line feed. was in colour but not broadcast
Davewantsone is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2019, 5:42 pm   #20
Heatercathodeshort
Dekatron
 
Heatercathodeshort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warnham, West Sussex. 10 miles south of DORKING.
Posts: 9,145
Default Re: Colour TV in UK in 1966-surely not!!

Thanks for that Dave. I never was a football fan and I don't think I watched it on either!
My Mum watched it in memory of my Dad who had passed away 3 years earlier. He lived as a boy opposite the old Wimbledon ground in Plough Lane.

Pye televised the Coronation in 1953 in live colour on a closed loop to Gt Ormond St Hospital. I presume it was NTSC. Another first for PYE.
Heatercathodeshort is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 3:24 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2023, Paul Stenning.