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Old 9th Jan 2021, 1:54 pm   #1
G6Tanuki
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Default "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

See https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/co...-signal-turns/ - seems the encoded switchover-pulses on R4LW that these legacy rate-change-meters use are likely to be discontinued in April 2023
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 2:13 pm   #2
Graham G3ZVT
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

I managed to screen-grab the page before the Telegraph's paywall cut in.
Am I the only one who doesn't subscribe?
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 2:20 pm   #3
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

My first house already had a white meter when I moved there in the mid-1970's. My recollection is that change-over was via a meter that incorporated an electric clock mechanism. I was under the impression that it had a spring reserve to cope with power cuts like the one in the Sangamo Weston time switch I fitted to operate the immersion heater: I wasn't aware of it using wireless.

I find that if you quickly turn off WiFi, the Telegraph's stories can be read at your leisure. No doubt they will fix it in due course. I buy paper copies most days anyway.

Last edited by emeritus; 9th Jan 2021 at 2:32 pm. Reason: Typos, further comment
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 4:15 pm   #4
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

That could prove interesting where I live. We had such metering a few years ago but for various other reasons - mainly about having the ability to change suppliers - we had it removed and went back to a standard rate system.

That said, we live in an area with no mobile phone signal so even the Smart Meter systems wouldn't work. I wonder what the 'cure' will be for that?
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Old 9th Jan 2021, 4:32 pm   #5
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

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Originally Posted by kellys_eye View Post
That said, we live in an area with no mobile phone signal so even the Smart Meter systems wouldn't work. I wonder what the 'cure' will be for that?
Probably decline to provide that service and go on a fixed tariff.

Have to see what the outcome is, I would think moving away from a system that’s not guaranteed and relying on short extensions every couple of years has got to change.
Whether for the better time will tell.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 2:09 am   #6
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

Worth noting that after closing the French LW service from Allouis at the end of 2016, the transmitter has been maintained on air just to carry the time data, as this is required for several essential services in France, including something to do with the railways. They originally expected the affected systems would be updated within the year!
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 8:00 am   #7
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

Where is the evidence of the 2023 date? Is it the now estimated time when Droitwich will be turned off, which has always been in the balance and never actually happens.

We have one of those teleswitch boxes on our storage heater supply at church but not sure if it is still active since the separate meter on that supply has now been upgraded to a smart one.

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Old 10th Jan 2021, 10:07 am   #8
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

The Radio Teleswitch web page, it says extended to 2023, doesn’t mean it can’t be extended again but the last hardware upgrade was 2008.
http://www.radioteleswitch.org.uk/status.html
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 10:46 am   #9
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

Well, got to do something, our economy 7 Nightstor boiler is switched by something. I always thought it was MSF, but this Teleswitch is much more sensible. After more than twenty years switching at 1am to 8am a few months back it suddenly changed to midnight to 7am.

Do the smart meters use GPS or something? Our meter is an old analogue one, had several visits to swap it but when pointed out it is three phase 100A they always go away again.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 11:50 am   #10
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Smile Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

Hi,
Here in France there is a system for remotely switching water heating which is encoded onto the mains supply.
I have a low voltage halogen reading lamp and I can sometimes 'hear' the repeated triple tones influencing the mains hum via a loose lamination in its transformer.
I doubt if the 'Linky' smart meter system uses it, as that communicates via 3G. So, maybe that will be redundant one day.
Cheers, Pete.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 11:54 am   #11
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

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Originally Posted by Nuvistor View Post
Probably decline to provide that service and go on a fixed tariff.
Whilst E7 is an economy for many people it is, here in Scotland, a lifeline to heat given the significantly worse effects of the cold we have.

Yesterday was the first day in over 2 weeks where we have temperatures above freezing - night time is -4C to -6C, day time around -1C to -1.5C and for many the provision of 'cheap heat' over any 24 hour period is essential.

Not that I fall into that category, but E7 is relied upon by nearly every property in my surrounding area - even piped gas is unavailable.

Whilst I don't doubt there is a way to change pricing to reflect a loss of E7 there hasn't been - to my knowledge - any information released on such.

All 'we' can hope for is that this spurs the suppliers on to work with mobile phone companies to increase coverage in remoter areas which, conveniently, might also improve the 2-4Mb/s internet we have to put up with!
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 12:33 pm   #12
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

Reading a little further a time switch can be attached to the meter to provide a similar service but the time is fixed.
https://www.elexon.co.uk/documents/t...ation-mapping/
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 2:10 pm   #13
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

I understand from a comment made on private group by an Arquiva engineer that the switch-off date is incorrect, but no other date was given.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 2:55 pm   #14
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

My last 2 E7 installations were mechanical time switches with plenty of spring backup reserve.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 4:04 pm   #15
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

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Originally Posted by russell_w_b View Post
I understand from a comment made on private group by an Arquiva engineer that the switch-off date is incorrect, but no other date was given.
Was the Arqiva person talking about the R4LW transmitters themselves, or the teleswitch signal?

Part of me suspects the turnoff of the teleswitch signal is a contractual matter between Arqiva and the teleswitch-people and doesn't imply the R4LW transmitters will be turned-off at the same time.

As a replacement, I suspect the existing cellphone chipsets could be used in a 'non-SIM' receive-only configuration to generate a time-signal. Of course that depends on there being a signal...
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 5:45 pm   #16
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

When I read the initial post, I almost wondered if the horse was being shut down, rather than the cart- i.e. could there have been some contractual warning to the teleswitch folk that there was pressure to close what must be an expensive and maintenance-intensive business of pushing lots of kilowatts into a large aerial set-up. Whenever closure of 198kHz is mentioned, there's a bit of a ruckus but I wonder how many folk apart from us Luddites genuinely use it as a primary source. There's a bit of a sentimental attachment, especially as BBC LW usage approaches its 100th anniversary, but the whole idea of high-power AM LF broadcasting seems antediluvian nowadays against all of the other available sources.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 6:02 pm   #17
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

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Originally Posted by G6Tanuki View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by russell_w_b View Post
I understand from a comment made on private group by an Arquiva engineer that the switch-off date is incorrect, but no other date was given.
Was the Arqiva person talking about the R4LW transmitters themselves, or the teleswitch signal?
He was on about the teleswitch signal. I have neard nothing about the transmitters closing.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 7:13 pm   #18
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

There's also the matter that the LW transmitter is locked to a frequency standard at the NPL, and is thus extraordinarily reliable.

Laboratory generators exist which receive the LW transmission, lock themselves to it, and are thus calibration standards. If BBC LW shuts down, they're going to be useless!

Not a major argument in keeping Droitwich running, but a small one nevertheless.
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Old 10th Jan 2021, 10:49 pm   #19
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

A very interesting article about the 198Khz Droitwich transmitter appeared the April 1989 EBU technical review, No.234.
Title: "LF broadcast transmission facilities in the United Kingdom"
A brief extract from the text: 7. Standard frequency output
Droitwich had for many years provided a standard frequency service on behalf of the National Physics Laboratory, by utilising a rubidium atomic source with division to obtain a drive signal at 200Khz. The change in transmission frequency required a more sophisticated means from the 5Mhz rubidium source.
Phase modulated data output
The BBC provides a low speed data signaling system over the LF transmissions. The project was funded by the Electricity Council which uses a large part of the capacity to provide a service known as Radio Teleswitching.

DFWB.

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Old 11th Jan 2021, 3:54 pm   #20
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Default Re: "Radio Teleswitch" turnoff; April 2023

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalee20 View Post
There's also the matter that the LW transmitter is locked to a frequency standard at the NPL, and is thus extraordinarily reliable.

Laboratory generators exist which receive the LW transmission, lock themselves to it, and are thus calibration standards. If BBC LW shuts down, they're going to be useless!

Not a major argument in keeping Droitwich running, but a small one nevertheless.
Well I use it as a frequency standard, & I expect there are a few others on the forum that also do.
I'm sure that Droitwich won't be kept on just for the few though!

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