Elizabethan LZ 34 R2R Checkout

[DMcMahon]

Very recently purchased this British, mid 1960's, 4 track (LZ 32 is the 2 track model), 3 speed, valve, mono reel to reel, it can use tape spools/reels up to 7.5"

Serial number is 346782. It uses the BSR TD-10 tape deck.

Evidently there is a Mk. II with improved electronics, I assume this one is not a Mk. II

This is my first hands on with an Elizabethan.

For its age it is generally in quite reasonable condition, the lid is somewhat stained and discolored, it was sold as working with a knocking motor.

Visually checked it out inside and hoovered some cobwebs away, the 2 rubber drive belts appear good and also the 2 rubber tyred drive idlers. Manually operating the various mechanisms everything appears mechanically to be OK.

No paper capacitors are present, the electronics are pretty basic with 3 valves (ECC83, ECL86 and EM84).

Powered it up slowly (AC load 0.32A) and checked out the HT voltages :-

Main HT at reservoir C20 =300V (with 7V 10mS ripple), HT 1 at C19 = 253V (with 0.1V ripple), HT2 at C2 = 187V, so all look good, unhelpfully the schematic does not show any voltages.

No +ve voltage measured at the valve control grids. EM 84 lights up well. Tape transport all works, 7" tape can be fast wound end to end in both directions. Mechanically the unit is noisy particularly in fast forward wind, do not think motor noise but drive idler noise, needs more looking at to quantify better. Playback of tape is good with plenty of volume and all 3 speeds work.

The volume, bass and treble controls are all noisy when adjusted so will give them a spray of contact cleaner.

Recording not yet checked.

David

[DMcMahon]

Tried to test microphone recording but no good.

The EM 84 recording level display did not respond to the microphone plus the record level did linearly change as the record level control (volume control) was increased with or without the microphone being plugged in.

Need to find another microphone wired to a phono plug (long reach) to see if the microphone that came with the LZ 34 is dead.

David

[af024]

A nice find David, the LZ34 is a favourite of mine and it works remarkably well - quite impressive in my opinion. I wish you well in your fault-finding - you won't be disappointed.

As for the circuit, I've only ever seen the combined LZ32/LZ34 one as published in the Radio and TV Servicing book. As you have discovered, no voltages are shown and irritatingly it also doesn't show the track switching. It would be great if the manufacturer's servicing info could be unearthed by someone. Fingers crossed.

Andy

[Welsh Anorak]

These are nice machines and are a step up from the usual 'garden shed built' look of many machines that use the BSR TD2 deck. I like the way they've tried to match the blue-grey colour of the TD10 with the elctronics.
I think this one has equalisation on the three speeds.
As you know the idlers go hard, but usually improve with use making the mechanism quieter.

[60136 Alcazar]

The general arrangement, valves and circuit board show marked similarities with the earlier single speed TD2 based Popular 200 and Popular 400 and I would expect the voltages on the valves to be very similar if not identical. The ECL86 pentode section being used for generating the required bias on record and audio output on playback.

[DMcMahon]

Originally Posted by af024

As for the circuit, I've only ever seen the combined LZ32/LZ34 one as published in the Radio and TV Servicing book. As you have discovered, no voltages are shown and irritatingly it also doesn't show the track switching. It would be great if the manufacturer's servicing info could be unearthed by someone. Fingers crossed.

Andy

Yes that is the only schematic I can find (via the Forum DVD), if someone did have the LZ 34 specific schematic that would be good, I would assume the manufacturer did produce one.

David

[DMcMahon]

Found another 2 microphones (1 Truvox and 1 Sound) with phono connectors (1 was long reach) and both work/record very well.

Checked the LZ 34 microphone output on oscilloscope and there is no signal, so sometime will open up the microphone to check its internal connections.

Next to investigate the noisy mechanical operation.

David

[DMcMahon]

Originally Posted by Welsh Anorak

I think this one has equalisation on the three speeds.

As far as I can see there is no switchable equalisation for the 3 speeds, maybe the Mk. II with the improved electronics has this.

David

[DMcMahon]

Originally Posted by 60136 Alcazar

The general arrangement, valves and circuit board show marked similarities with the earlier single speed TD2 based Popular 200 and Popular 400 and I would expect the voltages on the valves to be very similar if not identical. The ECL86 pentode section being used for generating the required bias on record and audio output on playback.

Thank you John, good input, later I will measure all the main valve electrode voltages and compare them to the Popular 200/400 listed voltages.

David

[Neil Purling]

If the OE microphone was a crystal type, then maybe it has gone the same way as crystal record player cartridges do. The Rochelle Salt crystal dissolves.

[dazzlevision]

Yes indeed.
I have several Thorn brands 1960s tape recorders and they all use crystal mikes, many of which now have a much reduced output.

[DMcMahon]

There is no marking of any sort on the microphone that came with the LZ 34, it looks the same as the microphone pictured with various Elizabethan models online, so most likely is the OE (original equipment) microphone that would have been supplied when new.

David

[Techman]

I've got the LZ 32 that's very similar. I call it my 'garden tape recorder', as it got used out in the garden when visitors were round during the 'situation' these last couple of years when folk could only socialise outside.

It's very unlikely to need any electronic work and no components will need replacing unless you're very unlucky. Perhaps a bit of switch cleaning will be all that's required.

It rumbles along nicely like all BSR TD10 tape decks do, just turn the music up and you won't notice it. The only cure for the rumbling and in some cases downright clattering is a replacement or refurbished main idler. You can sometimes fit a rubber band or ring round the idler tyre to make it a bit better - I think mine has something like this done to it, but it's so long ago that I can't fully remember. There's no such thing as a TD10 with a good (quiet) idler...and I've seen and worked on quite a few.

[dazzlevision]

Originally Posted by Techman

There's no such thing as a TD10 with a good (quiet) idler...and I've seen and worked on quite a few.

Same here, unfortunately!

[DMcMahon]

The motor itself is very quiet but I stripped it down to clean & relubricate the end bearing sleeves.

Stripped out the reel tables and idlers etc as very messy with old grease so cleaned and relubricated.

The running noise (always present when unit powered) is due to the main idler driving the flywheel/capstan, this noise is not bad.

In Rewind the noise increases a little due to the extra/added noise of the motor pulley driving the Supply reel table, this noise is not bad/is acceptable.

In Fast forward (FFD) wind it becomes very noisy, clattering as referenced above fits the bill. I tried to soften the rubber on the FFD idler by rubbing in quite a bit of liquid Glycerine but the rubber did not soften and no change to the noise level.

Some people say that Glycerine can soften some types of rubber, I have never had any success with it. Later I will try soaking the idler in Glycerine for an extended period to see if the rubber softens at all.

I found an old spare idler (part number PT 4200) of similar dimensions (a little smaller) from an unknown machine (possibly from a Collaro tape deck), where the rubber is softer/flexible. With this fitted the FFD noise is minimal, a major improvement. Cannot fit the retaining E-clip due to the idler having a longer boss so will file the boss down a little.

LZ 34 Idler - diameter = 66.3 mm, rubber thickness = 3.6 mm, boss length = 13.7 mm

Spare Idler - diameter = 63.6 mm, rubber thickness = 2.3 mm, boss length = 14.7 mm

Need to do some extended running of FFD winding with tape to see if reliable but so far looks very hopeful.

David

[Edward Huggins]

When set up this should sound good. I can see an EMI 9"x5" speaker - that's generous in a mass-market portable like this.

[Techman]

These are a good sounding tape recorder, probably one of the best of their type. Elizabethan recorders in general seem to be good performers audio wise. The bad idler problem just seems to be confined to all the TD10 decks, I've never known it on a TD2 that I can remember.

Another strange thing regarding Collaro is that the idler wheels used in their tape decks are always good, whereas a lot of the similar idler wheels from the record decks of the same era are often bad. Also Magnavox that became part of Collaro at that time also nearly always have bad idler wheels in their tape decks.

[dazzlevision]

Originally Posted by Techman

Also Magnavox that became part of Collaro at that time also nearly always have bad idler wheels in their tape decks.

I think the reverse was the case; Magnavox of the USA took over Collaro Ltd in 1960 and the company name changed to Magnavox Electronics Ltd, still at Ripple Works, Alfred’s Way, By-pass Road, Barking, Essex. Magnavox was later taken over by Philips.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ollaro&f=false

[DMcMahon]

Originally Posted by Edward Huggins

When set up this should sound good. I can see an EMI 9"x5" speaker - that's generous in a mass-market portable like this.

Yes the playback sound at Post 1 sounded good/very good and I thought then that the good sound was helped by the good sized speaker. I don't think the sound from my Ferguson 3248 with a fairly puny 3 1/2" speaker will compare well.

The speaker external dimensions are 9 7/8" x 4 1/2" and the speaker is listed in the User Instructions manual as 10" x 4 1/2" with heavy magnet.

There is some handwritten writing on the speaker (see attachment 1) that reads "reselected as best 12/96". Not sure what this means, possibly it had a speaker replacement in 1996 ?

David

[dazzlevision]

Neither speaker looks original to me.