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Old 26th Nov 2022, 9:56 pm   #1
Colourstar
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Default English Electric TV sets

I've found myself intrigued after reading about English Electric's entry in to the television market in 1949 and in particular their use of very unusual crts with metal cones. I'm wondering what advantage this type of tube was supposed to have? Who made them? The manufacturing process must have been quite challenging.

It's also interesting to see that EE sets anticipated the arrival of VHF radio as early as 1950- was this element of the set self-contained or was it an add-on unit?

It appears that by the mid 50s they were making more conventional 17" TVs with no particular stand-out features over those of their competitors. It was all over by the late 50s and by the 1960s English Electric were mainly associated with washing machines and cookers (one of which I own!).

EE television sets must be very rare in captivity all these years later. Does anyone have an example?

More info on Jon's Valve Page...

http://www.thevalvepage.com/tvmanu/engelec/engelec.htm


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Old 26th Nov 2022, 10:08 pm   #2
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

The Americans used metal sleeved CRTs fairly often it meant flatter front glass and less chance of it flying all over the place If it imploded that's about it.
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Old 26th Nov 2022, 10:13 pm   #3
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

I always associate English Electric with their famous ‘Lightning’ fighter jet, it was in service until the late 80’s, but it seems your cooker has surpassed even that!
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Old 26th Nov 2022, 10:48 pm   #4
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

Philips had some metal cone tubes in the early days as well. Soon replaced with all glass types.
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Old 26th Nov 2022, 11:07 pm   #5
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

English Electric also made a lot of the early diesel locomotives for British Rail, with the Class 37s still in service.

I did wonder if any of their TV sets still survive, I've sure I've seen one mention of one in a collection, but with a more conventional CRT fudged in as I assume the metal cone ones became unavailable after EE stopped making them.
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 12:30 am   #6
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

I know mikey405 has my old 16T11D table model that he restored to working order a few years ago. It still has the original metal cone CRT that provides a fair picture. I understand the problems with the metal cone CRT's was the seal between the glass and metal as different expansion properties of the two materials caused it to fail, thus by now most of them are duds.

I think the sets were a little too upmarket for most and it seems from publications of the time that they had problems with building and supplying enough sets for dealers which probably wouldn't help their reputation as a new comer to the TV market.

Their sets are scarce but survivors do exist, I know of 2x 16T11D receivers, 2x1550, one without CRT appeared at the NVCF some years ago. A few of their later rectangular tube sets have appeared for sale in recent years too. I have a particular interest in the companies sets as the 16T11D was my 405 set I ever owned and responsible for getting me into this hobby really.
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 1:15 am   #7
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

My Father worked for English Electric at their Bradford foundry. We had an Ekco TV and when I asked him why not an EE he said the same, too expensive!
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 10:16 am   #8
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

EE produced the T900 narrow angle and the wider angle T901/ T901A. They also produced a massive 21" T909, truly frightful. All at this time were circular.

Problems as mentioned were mostly the glass seal. Typical fault would be reported as 'we came down in the morning to find the screen cracked across'. Saying that there are quite a number of metal cone tubes that have survived. Of course the metal cone required very careful insulation due to the EHT of around 16KV. This is usually performed by a sort of polythene bag. There were still complaints about flashover in damp weather and EHT smoothing capacitors were required.

They do produce a very good picture. I have a Ferguson 989T console that is brilliant. They also weigh considerably less than the conventional glass tube.

The UK soon lost interest in the MC tube and most manufacturers only produced one model around 1952 fitted with the 16" Mullard MW41-1 that was a direct equivalent of the T901. The Ferguson 989T/990T, Bush TUG26 and the Ekco T176 were probably more familiar.

The EE T40 series were the last to be manufactured by EE around 1956/7 but were not very popular and performance from what I can remember was nothing special. If I remember correctly the aerial input on the 16T11D was a choc block[?]

EE produced a kit to replace the huge MC T909 with the Mullard rectangular MW53-20. I have the conversion data sheets in a file somewhere.

The 16" 1650 was fully equipped for FM reception and the 1651 also had a LW/MW receiver unit incorporated.

The 1550 used a glass 15" Cossor tube, the 1550M the early T900 MC one.
Yes they were very expensive and I believe designed by MARCONI, not EMI.
They are listed in R&TV Servicing.
A mystery? Did EE produce a 12" model? Their tubes were being sold off very cheaply in the late 50's including a 12" type but the number is not mentioned. The earliest EE receiver I have only come across is a 1951 model 1550. It would be interesting to know if they produced an earlier model with a 12" tube. John.

Last edited by Heatercathodeshort; 27th Nov 2022 at 10:35 am. Reason: Text added
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 10:34 am   #9
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

The 1550 series also used a very odd valve line up based on the Cossor/Emitron 185BT power Tetrode. It will be discovered in the Line output/Frame output/Sound output/Video output and EHT generator [185BTA]. Also the use of the EF92 in the I.F. strip, no less than three in each vision and sound stage. It must have been very high gain. The ECC91 was employed as frequency changer, another very rare sight in a TV. Expensive and over the top! J.
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 11:27 am   #10
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

There's an English Electric 1550 in the workshop. I'll take pictures of it tomorrow.
This TV receiver which was made in 1950 has facilities to receive FM radio.
The 1550 was designed by Marconi Ltd in Chelmsford.

DFWB.

Last edited by FERNSEH; 27th Nov 2022 at 11:37 am.
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 11:38 am   #11
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
Yes they were very expensive and I believe designed by MARCONI, not EMI.
John.
That would fit, as English Electric took over The Marconi Company in 1946.
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 12:00 pm   #12
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

I remember my late father (who also repaired TVs) being very uncomplementary about the metal come CRTs fitted to these sets. It appears the poythene insulator degraded over time and could - and did - give you a nasty belt.
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 12:40 pm   #13
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

John (HKS), I think you are correct about the 16T aerial input. It's been some years now since I passed my set on but I can remember it had a few feet of co-ax cable tied around the back of the set when I acquired it and this was connected to a choc block on the chassis. The set also had a screw type earth terminal at the back too, I can't say I've seen that on most 50s sets I've had, but you've seen many more than myself!
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 12:42 pm   #14
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

We had a number of customers with English Electric with metal cone tubes in the '50s, they had a pretty high EHT voltage for the day and gave quite a bright picture, didn't care for the layer of polythene between you and the the EHT on the CRT. They had some unusual large output valves I seem to remember, 41B or something like that?

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Old 27th Nov 2022, 1:00 pm   #15
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

Morning all.

The 16T11D that I acquired from Bren (EF80TVValve) some years ago works reasonably well and has a fair tube. It's not a particularly easy set to work on because all the components are sat in between the large square vertical chassis and the slightly-insulated T901A CRT.

One thing which did make things a little bit easier was that the whole chassis (tube and all) could be lifted out of the set and run independently of the cabinet.

Another interesting thing about this set is that it has a ludicrously loud line-whistle. I'm sure I read somewhere that all the soft insulation around the top / bottom / sides of the cabinet was to try and dampen the noise.

A pal of mine has the chassis and the enormously long T900 CRT from a 1550M - apparently the cabinet collapsed due to a serious case of woodworm.

As for the FM radio built into the 1550, I believe that this was built in as standard and was not an add-on unit. These sets did have an add-on flywheel circuit called a "Synchrophase" - which involved a pair of Mullard ECC33s. Time to re-mortgage the house if you ever need a pair of these from eBay...

The 1550 also had a very interesting way of generating the G2 voltage for the CRT. It used a 200Meg resistance between EHT and deck - tapped at 190Meg and fed to the G2 electrode. It was apparently unreliable (not really too surprising I guess) and caused fluctuating brightness dependant on picture content and was later modified with a metal rectifier, an 82K resistor and a smoothing cap. Much nicer.

Thanks all.

Kind regards.

From Mike.
PS. If anyone has a spare knob for one of these sets - I managed to break the "Contrast" knob (the one on the right - although they are identical) with my clumsiness. Although, to be fair, they are ridiculously flimsy...
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Last edited by Mikey405; 27th Nov 2022 at 1:19 pm. Reason: Added "PS"...
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 1:50 pm   #16
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

In my days of vintage TV collecting I never came across a GEC set. Wasn't there a bakelite one?
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 2:00 pm   #17
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Default Re: English Electric TV sets

Nice to see a picture of the 16T11D working away Mike, the picture looks much better than when we last chatted about it. I'd love to come and see it working sometime in the future if possible, I'm still very sentimental about that set though I'm glad it's in a good hoem and being cared for.
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 3:32 pm   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
In my days of vintage TV collecting I never came across a GEC set. Wasn't there a bakelite one?
A bit confused Steve. There were literally tens of thousands of GEC receivers down South. I can think of the BT1091/2 ,BT2147, and later the BT1155 series.
Sold by the thousand and rented by GEM TV Rentals. Distribution of brands was a bit odd back then.

I'm sure one of the EE receivers had a partly metal cabinet. [?] John.
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 4:05 pm   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
I'm sure one of the EE receivers had a partly metal cabinet. [?] John.
That was the 1550, John. It had a kind of beige-cream centre metal "strip" that went across the top of the set, past the CRT and down to the speaker grille. The strange vertical thumb wheel controls poked out from the metal bit. It all looked rather "industrial" to my eyes...
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Old 27th Nov 2022, 4:09 pm   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatercathodeshort View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehertz View Post
In my days of vintage TV collecting I never came across a GEC set. Wasn't there a bakelite one?
A bit confused Steve. There were literally tens of thousands of GEC receivers down South. I can think of the BT1091/2 ,BT2147, and later the BT1155 series.
Sold by the thousand and rented by GEM TV Rentals. Distribution of brands was a bit odd back then.

I'm sure one of the EE receivers had a partly metal cabinet. [?] John.
I'm not too sure what you're confused about, but anyway here's the set I'm thinking of: https://www.thevalvepage.com/tv/gec/bt2147/bt2147.htm
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