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Old 12th Jan 2016, 2:47 pm   #1
PJL
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Default Candlestick bell tinkle

Should I get bell tinkle from a candlestick phone? The bell is a Bell No. 1A now converted to a bellset using a 700 series induction coil but with the bell wired into the blue ringing circuit.

The No. 1A bell has no suppression and is extremely sensitive so maybe it is to be expected?
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Old 12th Jan 2016, 3:31 pm   #2
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

You will get bell tinkle from any kind of phone used on a line with individual broadband filters where another phone is dialling out in pulse mode. This is because there is no shunt across the bells anymore due to the separate ringing capacitors in each filter.

You can revert to "proper" 3-wire working (and thus, no more tinkling) by fitting a replacement faceplate to your NTE5 which is a "whole house" filter.
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Old 12th Jan 2016, 4:53 pm   #3
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

Do you mean that the new bellset is tinkling when you dial on the candlestick?

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Old 12th Jan 2016, 6:34 pm   #4
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

I have a DECT phone and the candlestick on the line. It is not enough to trigger the DECT bell but is enough to tinkle the No 1A bell. I have BT broadband so the master socket has the whole house filter. It doesn't surprise me that it tinkles as the dialler is a virtual short circuit on the line and the ring capacitor will discharge into the bell. I just wondered if this was 'normal'.
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Old 12th Jan 2016, 6:43 pm   #5
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

I've never had a 'proper' candlestick 'phone but have always wondered about this as they only have a single-pole gravity switch. Later instruments have an extra contact which shorts out the bell when off-hook.

That said, it's hard to believe that they tinkled back in the day.

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Old 12th Jan 2016, 7:08 pm   #6
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

In my circuit I use the ring capacitor in the master socket but the Bellset No.1 uses the receiver isolation capacitor for both purposes. I suspect my problem is the receiver is shorted out when dialling which would also short out the bell coil. Looks like I need to exactly copy the N250 circuit.
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Old 12th Jan 2016, 7:46 pm   #7
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

I 'cured' the tinkle on my (well her now) 746, to much surprise SHMBO liked it so the fix was undone.
 
Old 12th Jan 2016, 11:15 pm   #8
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

Quote:
Originally Posted by julie_m View Post
You will get bell tinkle from any kind of phone used on a line with individual broadband filters where another phone is dialling out in pulse mode. This is because there is no shunt across the bells anymore due to the separate ringing capacitors in each filter.

You can revert to "proper" 3-wire working (and thus, no more tinkling) by fitting a replacement faceplate to your NTE5 which is a "whole house" filter.
I came up with a "fix" for BB fitted with individual BT filters. And I asked the filter maker (excelsus z blocker) for their opinion. Their answer is that this is one of their approved methods, which negates the need for filters on older BB lines, on all sockets, as BB is filtered off when needed.
1) - feed external line via a 2w line direct ( or through several sockets on dedicated connected pair) to a slave socket beside computer .
2) connect a filter to socket, and PC via cat 5 and then a second socket( I always used a double individual master, with one side set up as slave) .
3) Phone side of filter is connected to 2/5 of master, and house wiring connected to 2/5 & 3 of master, and back to rest of house.
No unsightly filters sticking out of sockets. True plan 1A wiring, and the world is at rest.
BUT beware, the BB agents in other parts of the world. Their computer scripts say "all sockets MUST have a filter or all will fail".
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Old 13th Jan 2016, 2:01 pm   #9
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

Bellset No.1 N250 wiring looks like the answer. When off-hook and dialling, the bell ends up in parallel with a series connection of the primary and secondary of the induction coil. I had wired it as if it were a separate Bell No.1A which would always have had a tinkle issue. I will rewire it tonight and report back.
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Old 13th Jan 2016, 3:57 pm   #10
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcodger View Post
….True plan 1A wiring…...
Not quite Plan 1A more "new plug and socket", but as good as and, to be fair I'm not 100% certain whether BT re-designated the plan number as Plan 1A or Plan 4 for three wire PST extension systems when it was introduced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcodger View Post
…...Their computer scripts say "all sockets MUST have a filter or all will fail".
I have more experience of cable broadband than ADSL but have seen installations (for example that of my sister who does not live in a cabled area) where too many filters have caused some strange fault symptoms - as far as I am aware she still have to unplug her phone and filter in the kitchen when she uses the internet………



Regards

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Old 14th Jan 2016, 10:05 pm   #11
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

The N250 wiring has fixed the bell tinkle on dial. Now just a tinkle when picking the phone up.
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Old 14th Jan 2016, 10:25 pm   #12
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePillenwerfer View Post
That said, it's hard to believe that they tinkled back in the day.
I should think that few subscribers then had more than one telephone installed, so it was rarely a problem.
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Old 14th Jan 2016, 11:13 pm   #13
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

... and if they did, bells were supposed to be wired in series.
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Old 15th Jan 2016, 12:27 pm   #14
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

Does this mean the Bell No.1A would have been wired into a Bellset No.1?
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Old 16th Jan 2016, 2:01 pm   #15
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Default Re: Candlestick bell tinkle

Quote:
Originally Posted by PJL View Post
Does this mean the Bell No.1A would have been wired into a Bellset No.1?
Depends - if it was used as an extension bell, it would replace the strap between 'E' and 'L1' in diagram N250 (Note this is the original issue of N250 from 1924 with the Bellset 245 added as an alternative to the Bellset No 1 )

Note that when the Tele 150 was used on a Plan 1A, there was only one Bellset No 1 with the induction coil, capacitor and bell - the extensions only had a Tele 150 and a Bell 1A (with switch to short out the Bell 1A when you didn't want it to ring)

The attached diagrams are not on Sam Hallas' website.

Ian
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