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Old 7th Aug 2020, 11:43 am   #1
stitch1
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Default Attache radio

Hello,
Just a quick question. I've just restored a Pye valve battery portable and wondering what battery would be best for the 1.5V LT, C or D type or does it really not matter.

Thanks

John
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 11:46 am   #2
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Default Re: Attache radio

I quite often use a pair of C cells (in parallel) as they are more easily obtained at a good price and they easily fit inside an old battery casing.

The capacity of a pair of modern C cells is likely to be much higher than the original battery.

It really depends on how long your going to be running it for and convenience (availability)

Cheers

Mike T
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Last edited by Cobaltblue; 7th Aug 2020 at 11:48 am. Reason: clarification
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 11:52 am   #3
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Default Re: Attache radio

Hi Mike, I'd not thought of doing that sounds like a good idea.

I don't expect it will get a lot of use but with spending more time at home and some decent weather it would be nice to have something to use out side, I have been using a couple of mains/battery portables I have on mains but not ideal so thought I'd do a proper battery portable.

John

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Old 7th Aug 2020, 1:30 pm   #4
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Default Re: Attache radio

Hello,
I generally use a pair of C-cells in parallel too. A 3 volt (double) C- cell holder can be rewired for parallel and will fit inside an AD35 LT battery carton.
Two single battery holders will bolt back to back and will fit inside a B141 combined HT/LT battery carton and still leave room to daisy chain 9 off PP3 (with an additional one floating if desired) for the HT. If I'm rebuilding larger batteries such as the combined B103, B136 or AD3, I generally use multiple D-cells to give a long life. There is no need to have to solder batteries for LT.
Probably a bit over the top, but as new alkaline cells often produce nearly 1.6 volts initially even on load, I wire a 1.2 ohm resistor in to the LT battery to be kinder to the valves.
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 2:40 pm   #5
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Default Re: Attache radio

If you've got about 500mA running through the filaments (rough conservative estimate I haven't actually checked the valve lineup), wouldn't the batteries last only about 8 hours though?

G
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 4:40 pm   #6
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Default Re: Attache radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
If you've got about 500mA running through the filaments (rough conservative estimate I haven't actually checked the valve lineup), wouldn't the batteries last only about 8 hours though?

G
The set will use D*9* vales depending if the valves are 50mA types or 25 mA types the total current will be either 250mA or 125mA the output valves taking twice as much current at 1.5 volts as the other 3

I am of course assuming its one of the normal 4 Valve Attache case radios of which the most common seems to be the P114BQ (judging by the number of them I have lurking around)

I don't think John (Stitch1) has ever stated the model number

Cheers

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Old 7th Aug 2020, 5:17 pm   #7
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Default Re: Attache radio

Quick back of envelope calculation:
2 type c batteries = 16000mAh (alkaline) of which probably around 7000mAh will be usable in real terms before voltage drops significantly
At 250mA that's good for 28hrs of play time.

Not bad I suppose, better if he has the model consuming 125mA, assuming he's not planning to use it every day.

Gabe
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 6:30 pm   #8
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Default Re: Attache radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
Quick back of envelope calculation:
2 type c batteries = 16000mAh (alkaline) of which probably around 7000mAh will be usable in real terms before voltage drops significantly
At 250mA that's good for 28hrs of play time.

Not bad I suppose, better if he has the model consuming 125mA, assuming he's not planning to use it every day.

Gabe
Yes, and remember that with light-ish use the cells will have a chance to sort out their electrochemistry during their idle-time so the voltage-drop will be less. Drawing power from a zinc-carbon or alkaline primary-cell down to a voltage-cut-off-point all in one go invariably gives a much shorter life than drawing it in short bursts with long 'recovery' periods in between.
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Old 7th Aug 2020, 8:25 pm   #9
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Default Re: Attache radio

Sorry I had to go back to work. Thanks for the interesting replies ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chindit View Post
Hello,
I generally use a pair of C-cells in parallel too. A 3 volt (double) C- cell holder can be rewired for parallel and will fit inside an AD35 LT battery carton.
Two single battery holders will bolt back to back and will fit inside a B141 combined HT/LT battery carton and still leave room to daisy chain 9 off PP3 (with an additional one floating if desired) for the HT. If I'm rebuilding larger batteries such as the combined B103, B136 or AD3, I generally use multiple D-cells to give a long life. There is no need to have to solder batteries for LT.
Probably a bit over the top, but as new alkaline cells often produce nearly 1.6 volts initially even on load, I wire a 1.2 ohm resistor in to the LT battery to be kinder to the valves.
Just ordered a 2 cell holder from eBay for a couple of quid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobaltblue View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
If you've got about 500mA running through the filaments (rough conservative estimate I haven't actually checked the valve lineup), wouldn't the batteries last only about 8 hours though?

G
The set will use D*9* vales depending if the valves are 50mA types or 25 mA types the total current will be either 250mA or 125mA the output valves taking twice as much current at 1.5 volts as the other 3

I am of course assuming its one of the normal 4 Valve Attache case radios of which the most common seems to be the P114BQ (judging by the number of them I have lurking around)

I don't think John (Stitch1) has ever stated the model number

Cheers

Mike T
You are of course correct Mike it’s a P114BQ. An eBay purchase, excellent cosmetic condition but no valves and a duff output transformer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
Quick back of envelope calculation:
2 type c batteries = 16000mAh (alkaline) of which probably around 7000mAh will be usable in real terms before voltage drops significantly
At 250mA that's good for 28hrs of play time.

Not bad I suppose, better if he has the model consuming 125mA, assuming he's not planning to use it every day.

Gabe
[QUOTE=G6Tanuki;1277718]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe001 View Post
Quick back of envelope calculation:
2 type c batteries = 16000mAh (alkaline) of which probably around 7000mAh will be usable in real terms before voltage drops significantly
At 250mA that's good for 28hrs of play time.

.
No probably won’t be used more than once a week in the summer.

Think I messed up the multi quoting! Thanks again for the replies. When it’s back together I’ll measure the current consumption.

John
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 4:43 am   #10
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Default Re: Attache radio

It may be worth remembering that if you use rechargeable lithium cells that they only produce 1.2v; an area where some frequency changers start to get a bit tempremental

Regards
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 9:18 am   #11
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Default Re: Attache radio

Rechargeable lithium cells are more like 4V. Nickel cadmium or nickel metal hydride are around 1.2V, lead acid around 2V.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 10:18 am   #12
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Default Re: Attache radio

It is actually much cheaper to power the filaments from a couple of AA alkalines, simply because these can be bought at low prices in places like Poundland and Primark. Whether this is practical depends on the usage pattern of the set, and whether the owner is prepared to change batteries quite frequently.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 11:07 am   #13
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Default Re: Attache radio

So there's no real technical reason why one would be better than another but Herald raises a good point about re-chargeables.

And if there is no technical preference between AA, C or D 'the owner' will be using whatever I have to hand, just happens I have some C types and no use for them so I'll use those up first.

It’s still on the "bench" but working well now so hopefully get it cleaned and up re-assembled today.

John
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 1:04 pm   #14
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Default Re: Attache radio

Perhaps its the shops round here but I find it hard to buy C type cells in recent times, loads to purchase online though of course.
Steve.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 6:58 pm   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herald1360 View Post
Rechargeable lithium cells are more like 4V. Nickel cadmium or nickel metal hydride are around 1.2V, lead acid around 2V.
Quite right - I meant Ni-Mh cells and also to draw attention to the observation about potential issues with the frequency changers needing charged LT batteries to work

Shows the peils of posting in the wee small hours

Regards
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 6:58 pm   #16
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Default Re: Attache radio

All done, temporary battery arrangement, working really well. Looking forward to taking it out for a picnic this week.

John
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 6:59 pm   #17
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Default Re: Attache radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
It is actually much cheaper to power the filaments from a couple of AA alkalines, simply because these can be bought at low prices in places like Poundland and Primark. Whether this is practical depends on the usage pattern of the set, and whether the owner is prepared to change batteries quite frequently.
A good point!

An extension of the basic idea could be to use something like an eight AA cell holder, rewired for parallel operation if frequent battery replacement is annoying. With about 2000mAH each (for 1.5V to 1.2V operational life) you'll be back up to the lifetime of a couple of Cs or a D.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 7:09 pm   #18
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Default Re: Attache radio

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All done, temporary battery arrangement, working really well. Looking forward to taking it out for a picnic this week.

John
That's a very nice example John.
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Old 8th Aug 2020, 7:17 pm   #19
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That will do admirably for a picnic, it is fun using such radios as intended. People complain about the lack of MW/LW stations today, in the 50's we only had the home and light maybe the third programme as well. Now we have quite a few, as well as Radio 4 LW I quite like my local "Asian" stations, always upbeat with interesting music.

One valve radio, one picnic, one(!) bottle of wine, what's not to like?
 
Old 8th Aug 2020, 7:27 pm   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsherwin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post
All done, temporary battery arrangement, working really well. Looking forward to taking it out for a picnic this week.

John
That's a very nice example John.
I’ve been looking for one for a while but most due I’m sure to being portable are tatty but this one looked tidy. When it arrived I was dismayed to find all the valves missing and the output transformer o/c but I found one that just needed altering to fit (you may have noticed), changed the usual caps and even did the alignment just for fun. The rexine, is perfect and cleaned up nicely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinmaxwell View Post
That will do admirably for a picnic, it is fun using such radios as intended. People complain about the lack of MW/LW stations today, in the 50's we only had the home and light maybe the third programme as well. Now we have quite a few, as well as Radio 4 LW I quite like my local "Asian" stations, always upbeat with interesting music.

One valve radio, one picnic, one(!) bottle of wine, what's not to like?
I assure you I took this photo before your post and I was listening to the test match special

John
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