UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Powered By Google Custom Search Vintage Radio Service Data

Go Back   UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum > Specific Vintage Equipment > Vintage Television and Video

Notices

Vintage Television and Video Vintage television and video equipment, programmes, VCRs etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11th Jan 2020, 3:59 pm   #1
Newgirl2013
Tetrode
 
Newgirl2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Hayle, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 96
Default Bush TV12/TV22 differences

My first television was a Bush TV22 with a band three converter
Just out of interest what was the difference between a TV12 and a TV22
Sharon

Last edited by AC/HL; 11th Jan 2020 at 9:07 pm. Reason: Thread split
Newgirl2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2020, 4:03 pm   #2
Panrock
Octode
 
Panrock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Worcestershire
Posts: 1,831
Default Re: How Television Works

The most obvious differences were that the valve line-up was different, and the picture mask shape was more rectangular on the TV12. Others will probably add to this list.

Steve
Panrock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2020, 4:14 pm   #3
Newgirl2013
Tetrode
 
Newgirl2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Hayle, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 96
Default Re: How Television Works

Ah
Thanks very much
Sharon
Newgirl2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2020, 6:23 pm   #4
peter_scott
Nonode
 
peter_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK.
Posts: 2,237
Default Re: How Television Works

I think the 12 uses the famous EF50 in the receiver. The EF91 took over in the 22 and later versions still went to EF80.

Peter
peter_scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2020, 6:56 pm   #5
Newgirl2013
Tetrode
 
Newgirl2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Hayle, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 96
Default Re: How Television Works

Hi Peter
Thanks very much for the info
I remember my TV22 had a brilliant picture
It had the original Bush Band three converter screwed on the back
Pull the knob out and tune for ITV and push it in for BBC
Can't find a pic of the converter
Sharon
Newgirl2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2020, 7:29 pm   #6
mark pirate
Dekatron
 
mark pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Posts: 4,818
Default Re: How Television Works

Quote:
The most obvious differences were that the valve line-up was different, and the picture mask shape was more rectangular on the TV12. Others will probably add to this list.
Both timebase and receiver chassis were different to the later TV22, notably the TV12 has separate line output & EHT transformers, different speaker (also used in the DAC10 radio) and both chassis are full of those lovely red EF50's

There was a later version that retained the RF chassis, but used the later TV22 main chassis.

Like the DAC90 (A) radio, the TV12/22 have become the iconic early 50's sets.
They sold in large numbers due to price & reliability.

Mark
mark pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2020, 7:57 pm   #7
HamishBoxer
Dekatron
 
HamishBoxer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: W.Butterwick, near Doncaster UK.
Posts: 7,140
Default Re: How Television Works

Certainly a TV12 Bush if it uses EF50,s.
__________________
G8JET BVWS Member and V.M.A.R.S
HamishBoxer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th Jan 2020, 8:19 pm   #8
peter_scott
Nonode
 
peter_scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Edinburgh, UK.
Posts: 2,237
Default Re: How Television Works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Newgirl2013 View Post
Hi Peter
It had the original Bush Band three converter screwed on the back
Pull the knob out and tune for ITV and push it in for BBC
Can't find a pic of the converter
Sharon
Perhaps here.

Peter
peter_scott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2020, 1:48 pm   #9
Newgirl2013
Tetrode
 
Newgirl2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Hayle, Cornwall, UK.
Posts: 96
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

That's the one Peter,
Medmories from 1961
Sharon
Newgirl2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th Jan 2020, 2:09 pm   #10
Peter.N.
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 3,361
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

The TV 12 was a TRF, the 22 a superhet.

Peter
Peter.N. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th Jan 2020, 11:18 pm   #11
mark pirate
Dekatron
 
mark pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Posts: 4,818
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

Quote:
The TV 12 was a TRF, the 22 a superhet.
The TV12 was available in London & Birmingham models, the TV22 was the first set to have user adjustable tuning.

Another difference is the Aerial input, Belling-Lee on the TV12, but a saddle clamp on the TV22.


Mark
mark pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2020, 12:35 am   #12
flyingtech55
Heptode
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 951
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.N. View Post
The TV 12 was a TRF, the 22 a superhet.

Peter

Wow....I didn't know that (along with the 30 trillion other things I don't know). I can envisage a TRF radio (in fact I made simple one) but the thought of a TRF television is quite a leap. Presumably the tuning is preset to one transmitter but did they stay in tune?


TimR
__________________
Note: This posting has been independently audited to ensure it contains neither humour nor irony.
flyingtech55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2020, 9:00 am   #13
Duke_Nukem
Octode
 
Duke_Nukem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK.
Posts: 1,181
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

Yes, preset tuning, a red circular metal label around the aerial socket on the rf chassis tells you what it is tuned to. The TRF chassis is well designed and stable (give or take EF50 sockets). Of the three basic versions, I prefer the TV12AM, pretty red rf chassis of the '12 combined with the better performance (including focus stability) of the '22.

TTFN,
Jon
Duke_Nukem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2020, 11:12 am   #14
Peter.N.
Dekatron
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Charmouth, Dorset, UK.
Posts: 3,361
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

The TRF models had to be stable all the coils were tuned to the transmitter frequency, plus or minus a little to give the necessary vision bandwidth. The TV12A was made for Alexandra palace, the only transmitter operating then. 45Mhz vision and 41.5 Mhz sound only they were Mc/s in those days.

Most of the TV's I worked on in the early days were TRF's.

Peter
Peter.N. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2020, 11:23 am   #15
mark pirate
Dekatron
 
mark pirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Worthing, West Sussex, UK
Posts: 4,818
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

Quote:
I prefer the TV12AM, pretty red rf chassis of the '12 combined with the better performance (including focus stability) of the '22.
Having restored a few TV22's, I actually prefer the TV12.
My TV12 was a very rough example, but turned out way better than I could have hoped for (see here: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/...d.php?t=122824).

The quality of the TRF RF deck is superior to the later TV22, none of those nasty wax decouplers to deal with.
Picture quality is very good indeed, no focus drift problems and very stable even after several hours viewing, I also think the sound quality is better too.

Mark
mark pirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2020, 1:34 pm   #16
AC/HL
Moderator
 
AC/HL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Heckmondwike, West Yorkshire, UK.
Posts: 7,856
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

The early ones were double sideband I believe, predating the vestigial transmissions.
__________________
Bill, BVWS member
AC/HL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2020, 8:27 pm   #17
flyingtech55
Heptode
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Ayrshire, UK.
Posts: 951
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.N. View Post
The TRF models had to be stable all the coils were tuned to the transmitter frequency, plus or minus a little to give the necessary vision bandwidth. The TV12A was made for Alexandra palace, the only transmitter operating then. 45Mhz vision and 41.5 Mhz sound only they were Mc/s in those days.

Most of the TV's I worked on in the early days were TRF's.

Peter

I guess the IFs were stagger tuned to provide the necessary bandwidth, especially for the sync. signal. How many transmitters were there in the early days? Presumably Alexandra Palace (Ally Pally)? Also, if you owned a set in the London area and then moved North, the television would be rendered useless?
__________________
Note: This posting has been independently audited to ensure it contains neither humour nor irony.
flyingtech55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2020, 11:36 pm   #18
FERNSEH
Dekatron
 
FERNSEH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, UK.
Posts: 5,968
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

Pictures of the "Birmingham" TV12B.

DFWB.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TV12B_1.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	48.2 KB
ID:	197200   Click image for larger version

Name:	TV12B_2.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	84.0 KB
ID:	197201   Click image for larger version

Name:	TV12B_3.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	44.4 KB
ID:	197202  
FERNSEH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jan 2020, 12:23 am   #19
Richard_FM
Heptode
 
Richard_FM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Stockport, Cheshire, UK.
Posts: 961
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingtech55 View Post
I guess the IFs were stagger tuned to provide the necessary bandwidth, especially for the sync. signal. How many transmitters were there in the early days? Presumably Alexandra Palace (Ally Pally)? Also, if you owned a set in the London area and then moved North, the television would be rendered useless?
I did wonder if the coils could be changed to work on another frequency.

Certainly some sets were made where components could be changed to work with the local transmitter.
__________________
Beware of the trickster on the roof
Richard_FM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th Jan 2020, 10:53 am   #20
Brigham
Heptode
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Co. Durham, UK.
Posts: 878
Default Re: Bush TV12/TV22 differences

Does the TV12 have a 5:4 aspect ratio? The one in the pic. (above) appears to.
(by the way... what's the Dr. Who connection?)
Brigham is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 5:21 pm.


All information and advice on this forum is subject to the WARNING AND DISCLAIMER located at https://www.vintage-radio.net/rules.html.
Failure to heed this warning may result in death or serious injury to yourself and/or others.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2002 - 2020, Paul Stenning.