Guide for Digital/Analogue hand or base scanners for HF reception

[HECTOR63]

Any Brands or specifics looking for something on a starting budget as to upgrade due to Analogue becoming so quite general coverage for Amateur use etc and personal use only,user,enthusiast for hobby on going.

[Andrew2]

Hand-held scanner-type receivers with HF coverage are without exception pretty poor. They tread a very fine line between deafness and overload, and you end up hearing very little or the bands fill up with sprogs.
Much better are the portables radios with AM/FM/SW, Sony make a couple of nice ones (or they did, I haven't checked lately) and then there are the Sangeans like the 909 etc. It's worth looking for reviews, there are plenty on the net.
I have a Sangean 909 (old version) it is pretty decent.

[HECTOR63]

Many thanks for the advice Andrew I shall check those out as HF around here at the moment is virtually no existent! But I now have Practical Wireless on Sub and awaiting delivery of Radio User Mag to catch up on what's what and too look for etc. AOR do some amazing gear and seems Digital is the mainstream these days but I still like the portables there a bit more personal and character driven on selection to purchaseSDR is something else although a bit more PC than I would usually like it does support a number of good things and the PC helps greatly to be able to update and sometimes run from when eyes become tired of small displays and fingers running slow with screen pushes and slides etc

[Radio Wrangler]

It's a difficult field to find anything good in.

Yes, there are scanners, but they compete on parameters like frequency coverage and astronomical numbers of memories but not on the ability to receive radio signals

Yes there are SDR things and dongles for your PC/laptop etc. These boast zillions of modes, waterfall displays and indefinite numbers of memories - with annotation! What they don't compete on is the ability to, you've guessed it!, receive radio signals. Bells and whistles are easier to demonstrate and more likely to be understood by their target market.

For having a general listen around, one of the sangeans would be reasonable. Things like the Sony 7600 and 2001 are getting old enough to have too much trouble with dead tantalum capacitors.

But if you're getting interested in shortwave radio, these sorts of things are soon grown out of, so don't blow all your cash. Assume you'll want something better fairly soon.

Most people with a crap receiver just assume the band is terribly noisy or dead or there's just no-one on. It really is remarkable just how bad some receivers are, and they never get the blame.

If you go for something fairly decent, a well known model from a trusted manufacturer and buy it second-hand, you can always sell it for what you paid +/- a bit depending on luck, when you change your mind or learn a bit more about where your interests are tending towards.

Don't overlook local amateur radio clubs. I keep a few receivers and loan them out to people to do some exploring with.... exploring the bands but also exploring their own interests.

To do much listening on today's bands you'll soon want a proper tuning knob, ssb filters and slow, stable tuning.

David

I have a Tecsun PL-398 which uses the SiLabs DSP si4734 chip, it works very well for a hand held SW receiver (LW/MW/VHF FM too), I got it in the 2017 heatwave so I could sit outside and enjoy radio.

It can do a scan of what is available on SW giving you memory access to stations, fast scanning of SW isn't of much use as most stations stay on the air for quite a while on a particular frequency

Take a look at the chips datasheet, it can do lots more than my radio does, other radios exploit more functions.

[HECTOR63]

Many thanks for the further advices folks very welcome indeed Currently I have a Yaesu FRG7700/Kenwood R-1000(on its way) but both in need of minor repairs but the Yaesu is good and typical of the kind of listening rig I'm after whilst considering Foundation licence venture for TX. But thought this a good start to get some approach toward the latter entity and also learn about reception and antenna's etc. I recently opted for an Icom IC-R6 but probably need to get into a better area as at the moment its as deaf as a post even with upgraded telescopic c/o Nevada radio. But maybe I should be looking up to some JRC and larger scale Icom etc say upto the £500 mark and more modern (less than 10years old) to get a better chance of technology improvements and frequency re arrangements since the 1980s.Also looking at the Digital/Analogue kind of hybrids and as mentioned with all the Jazzy spectrums etc with PC its the fundamental loss of outboard hardware control i miss the most. A bit like with Electronic drums and machines etc when they have VST plugins for PCs etc it just leaves me cold! Anyway hopefully when of if lock down eases up a bit and some radio rallies and alike come back to play I can get to some boot shows and table stands and see whats up for sale, always exciting stuff to look at on any weekend

[jjl]

I have a XHDATA D-808 radio that I think would cover your needs. It uses the SiLabs Si4735 direct conversion chip and performs very well on SW. I'm very happy with mine.
Even better, they only cost about £80 from Amazon.

John

[HECTOR63]

Many thanks John I shall take look at one of those shortly and see what's what,Cheers

[ex seismic]

If you are thinking of going for the Foundation licence start of with an amateur transceiver. You will want one eventually and they hold their price. Pretty well all the half way recent ones have general coverage receivers so are good for SWL as well. Just don't plug in the microphone.

start of with an amateur transceiver

Sage advice indeed, many more made than receivers of that class, so better bang for buck. I had an ICOM 720A, very good even at over 40 years old (gave it away to the local club) and have an FT450, nice little 100W set. Now I only tend to receive I use SDRPlay SDRs or if having a transmit moment my ELAD FDM DUO, that will do anything you want, not the cheapest though.

For a "toe in the water" base receiver get an SRDPlay RSP1 https://www.sdrplay.com/rsp1/ fantastic value for money and really very good performance. Their software is free, it doesn't work with other makes of SDR, who cares? The best SDR interface I have seen by a (very) long chalk. Worth getting as a check receiver anyway.

[HECTOR63]

Thanks again folks-yes the transceiver option has been mentioned before but more under consideration as you've correctly identified they go a lot further than many early receiver's and as and when I can get myself ready for the process of foundation Course training (as just in book reads at the moment currently with (The Foundation Licence for Radio Amateurs Manual By Alan Betts)which so far has been very good indeed and on the other side of general interests (Test Equipment for the Radio Amateur).I shall follow up on the SDR Play as that sounds like its worth a look and adds some spice to that Genre of the diverse amount of kit open on the market at the moment. I have a PC feed that I can just click on Web SDRs etc and take a general listen to those but does help to identify samples of waves etc with the rolling framework of spectrum etc its just having to plot and drag around with the mouse to then alter cursor to open up and close the different figure to capture some signals that gets a bit fiddly at times. Where as on a Radio once reasonably fluent with its operation it all becomes an instinct to know what to do how and when

[Radio Wrangler]

THe usual big-three manufacturers put better receivers in their transceivers than they did in their purely receivers. More facilities for winkling quiet stations out from the skirts of high power stuff. The transceivers sold into what they considered a more sophisticated market, while receivers mostly went to shortwave listeners, usually considered to be beginners.

So they sold a lot more transceivers than receivers. Second hand transceivers are a lot more bang per buck. If you're going for a licence, you'll need to learn how to drive one anyway so why not start with one?

Analogue/DSP hybrid? Well they are still the highest performance if you want the best and can keep going in circumstances where the almost-all DSP ones hit troubles with ADC dynamic range. But, steer clear of the early DSP sets. They were a bit of a step backwards from some of the best of the purely analogue sets.

For HF use, the Icom IC-765 is superb. Good clarity on receive, the narrow filters for CW don't ring. The speech processor on transmit even sounds good. The later IC-775 was partial DSP derivative and although it pointed to the further future was a step backwards at the time. Reliability wasn't good, too.

But why not get your FRG87700 and R1000 going first. It'll give you an incentive, and you can learn plenty from them to better refine your future choices.

I'm a receiver nutter. I used to design them for a living at HP.

Currently at GM4ZNX:

Transceivers

ICOM IC-7700 late generation DSP-analogue hybrid.
IC765 last generation analogue and one of the best.... look at the reviews all over the internet
IC910 multimode 2m 70cm 23cm VHF/UHF
IC 92D 2m 70cm hand-held transciver with scanner.

Receivers:

Eddystone EA12
Racal RA1217
Racal RA1792
Icom R9000 (30kHz to 2GHz! large!)
AR88(no suffix, an early one, due a rebuild)
AR88D for spares

Your first decent receiver is just the thin end of the wedge.

David

Your first decent receiver is just the thin end of the wedge.

So true...

[Andrew2]

If you can get the Trio R1000 going properly you'll be well set. They were a nice receiver at the time and remain very useful today, with stable, stepless semi-synthesised tuning and a noticeable lack of 'noises-off'. I had one for several years before flogging it off to raise cash for something-or-other.
I'm not sure I'd spend a lot of money on an HF receiver these days as most of the international broadcasters are closing their analogue shortwave services and the bands are filling up with digital modes in place of the analogue utility services. Of course some of it is decodable with the aid of a PC and suitable software, but somehow it ain't the same... and then there's the damned noise.
OK, before I actually say 'when I were a lad' I'll go and slump in front of the telly.

[HECTOR63]

Originally Posted by Radio Wrangler

THe usual big-three manufacturers put better receivers in their transceivers than they did in their purely receivers. More facilities for winkling quiet stations out from the skirts of high power stuff. The transceivers sold into what they considered a more sophisticated market, while receivers mostly went to shortwave listeners, usually considered to be beginners.

So they sold a lot more transceivers than receivers. Second hand transceivers are a lot more bang per buck. If you're going for a licence, you'll need to learn how to drive one anyway so why not start with one?

Analogue/DSP hybrid? Well they are still the highest performance if you want the best and can keep going in circumstances where the almost-all DSP ones hit troubles with ADC dynamic range. But, steer clear of the early DSP sets. They were a bit of a step backwards from some of the best of the purely analogue sets.

For HF use, the Icom IC-765 is superb. Good clarity on receive, the narrow filters for CW don't ring. The speech processor on transmit even sounds good. The later IC-775 was partial DSP derivative and although it pointed to the further future was a step backwards at the time. Reliability wasn't good, too.

But why not get your FRG87700 and R1000 going first. It'll give you an incentive, and you can learn plenty from them to better refine your future choices.

I'm a receiver nutter. I used to design them for a living at HP.

Currently at GM4ZNX:

Transceivers

ICOM IC-7700 late generation DSP-analogue hybrid.
IC765 last generation analogue and one of the best.... look at the reviews all over the internet
IC910 multimode 2m 70cm 23cm VHF/UHF
IC 92D 2m 70cm hand-held transciver with scanner.

Receivers:

Eddystone EA12
Racal RA1217
Racal RA1792
Icom R9000 (30kHz to 2GHz! large!)
AR88(no suffix, an early one, due a rebuild)
AR88D for spares

Your first decent receiver is just the thin end of the wedge.

David

Hey David yes some great gear there and great to hear your such an enthusiast aswell, we are all the same at heart but its always the big divide between storage and usage space and budget all the time. But that said its still great fun to indulge and never a dull moment specially at fairs and shows where even I have to come home with at least one purchase under my belt
Thanks for the TX advices too I shall be seeking those out later for a read up and see what's around in the meantime. Hopefully the R1000 will be here next week its a bit scruffy cosmetically but shall be looking to tidy up if possible and spares are available even used etc.

[HECTOR63]

Originally Posted by Andrew2

If you can get the Trio R1000 going properly you'll be well set. They were a nice receiver at the time and remain very useful today, with stable, stepless semi-synthesised tuning and a noticeable lack of 'noises-off'. I had one for several years before flogging it off to raise cash for something-or-other.
I'm not sure I'd spend a lot of money on an HF receiver these days as most of the international broadcasters are closing their analogue shortwave services and the bands are filling up with digital modes in place of the analogue utility services. Of course some of it is decodable with the aid of a PC and suitable software, but somehow it ain't the same... and then there's the damned noise.
OK, before I actually say 'when I were a lad' I'll go and slump in front of the telly.

Many thanks Andrew great posting and totally agree even in my recent steps within these Genres I'm discovering that major issue of Digital and Analogue in elctronics.Im a huge fan of Analogue no matter what it is due to that's really the origin of everything and digital is just a fast take and fancy sped up versions to allow super duper access and speeds etc. Well that's as maybe but Analogue is where the Lunch comes from and lets hope it remains for many years to come. Now we are out of the UK and the UK may yet come back into building equipment again that used to last for great periods of time and always within reason very serviceable which adds to the future of new and up and coming engineering in the UK. Hopefully get some more proper companies evolving into proper service departments and recovering more vintage stuff and may be new Retro takes just like Roland have been doing with some of there older Drum machines etc.

[HECTOR63]

I Found this and thought might be of use in the future

[Radio Wrangler]

Originally Posted by HECTOR63

I Found this and thought might be of use in the future

Expect the need to replace the damnable plastic trimmers in the VCO compartment. They slimed a soft-setting gunge over the vco components to damp microphony, did it to various models of radio, and the gunge slowly corrodes the trimmers. Produces scary synthesiser out of lock faults, but is a doddle to fix.

For its time, it was quite a good synthesiser. The phase noise plot of mine is in the ARRL handbook (1995edition onwards)

Not all those mods in that document are beneficial. Different people have different preferences. The filters they consider to be not as good are the later reduced ringing linear phase designs. Plots look less good, but you can hear things better with them. My 765 is fully loaded except for the tone coder.

Nice set, but they're all quite old now. However, they're also likely to have been tresured, so I'd expect good ones to be around.

761 is OK.

751 and earlier sets had a nasty trap... software in battery powered RAM. When the battery dies, you lose the software and you need a new battery and have to arrange a source of the code and a way to download it.

David

[HECTOR63]

Many thanks for the information on the 751 etc that is always useful to know in advance. It seems that the older products all have noted stop faults at some stage some being more of a problem than others but that's what becomes of age and technologies etc of the times. Yes the Mods things are something we used to see in Audio AV aswell, but unless the unit under repair would significantly benefit from such and upgrade or adaptability we would normally advise depending on customer concerned incase they started a situation of holding manufactures to design faults possibly etc etc. But still worth knowing but more so in terms of experiments so if no real change or benefit can always be reverse engineered. But the 751 seems very credible but lets see what comes up within the next few months whilst I get the FRG7700 and expected R-1000 up and running in a better order of service and gain more knowledge to operate and expand on, although even the basic SDR only software I have been messing with on the PC has helped a lot so far albeit so fiddly and still preferer the Hardware options anytime. Mind you it seems that a possibility that more activity may be conducted over Wifi and alike as we move on although this really undermines the whole application of true RF pursuit and the pleasure of using radios for TX and RX with true Aerials but can be a good thing to be able to network with in emergency situations and alike, so cuts both ways I guess!