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Old 18th Aug 2017, 7:08 am   #21
G3VKM_Roger
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_G4MDC View Post
Thanks for the tip that Google Earth has history that long.
I was just using present Google Maps from web.
Could be interesting.
Jon,

There is a "Defence of Britain Project" overlay .kml file for Google Earth which shows the location of fortifications in the UK from both world wars. I checked the Southwold area, which was heavily fortified, but without fiinding any radio sites. However, it was a free download and very interesting.

73

Roger
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 11:39 am   #22
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

Hi All,
One of the additional pictures brought up by M0CEM shows another "wigwam" which I think confirms Roger's view of a pre-fabricated metal structure with a canvas roof. No dish on the second wigwam and no indication of what it was being used for.
One of the other additional photos shows a second vertical dipole on the watch hut tower. I think the E-boats used frequencies between 38 - 48MHz for R/T communications.
The site at Garway Hill, Herefordshire mentioned by Richard indicates an interesting development in the use of the "standard" RN D/F hut. If indeed it was used to track aircraft as an aid to navigation it implies operation at frequencies in the 100 - 156MHz band which was used by aircraft at that time. Still (mostly) within the tuning range of the Hallicrafters S27 etc. but obviously requiring a different antenna.
cheers
Peter G8BBZ
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Old 20th Aug 2017, 11:55 am   #23
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_G4MDC View Post
I'm laying my bets that the station was at Easton Bavents.

This picture http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205157761
was the clue.

Under the end of the road viewed from beach are old pipes and cables which lead to what is now in the drink.
Hi Jon,

The pipe would probably have been an overflow from Buss Creek, the end of the road being roughly in line with the end of the end of the boating lake, the creek, and the Southwold boundary. Southwold is virtually an island, bounded by the River Blyth and the creek, and I can remember as a child an occasion when the creek overflowed into the sea.

Kind regards

Dave
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 10:35 am   #24
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8BBZ View Post
Hi All,
One of the additional pictures brought up by M0CEM shows another "wigwam" which I think confirms Roger's view of a pre-fabricated metal structure with a canvas roof. No dish on the second wigwam and no indication of what it was being used for.
One of the other additional photos shows a second vertical dipole on the watch hut tower. I think the E-boats used frequencies between 38 - 48MHz for R/T communications.
The site at Garway Hill, Herefordshire mentioned by Richard indicates an interesting development in the use of the "standard" RN D/F hut. If indeed it was used to track aircraft as an aid to navigation it implies operation at frequencies in the 100 - 156MHz band which was used by aircraft at that time. Still (mostly) within the tuning range of the Hallicrafters S27 etc. but obviously requiring a different antenna.
cheers
Peter G8BBZ
Peter,

while I was interviewing Captain Ken Ward about the Auxiliary Units VHF network in the UK, he made the claim that before he started that particular work he was assigned to a job of picking up E-boats transmissions from the south coast of the UK.

He claimed the frequency in use by E-boats was around 70MHz. I have never been able to verify that claim - though I did try and do some research as to exactly what radio equipment the E-boats would have had on board. I couldn't find any German equipment operating at 70MHz.

Richard
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 1:16 pm   #25
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

Hi Richard,
There is a specific reference her:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/SchnellSignals.htm
to the use of the Lo1UK35 transceiver on E-Boats - a low power A2/A3 transceiver operating between 41.55 and 45.75MHz - used ship to ship for coordination at sea.
The only other VHF set used by the Kriegsmarine appears to be Lo10UK39 - a 10W A2/A3 transceiver operating between 37.5 and 45.7MHz. I have not found any specific reference to confirm the use of this set on E-Boats so it's use may have been on larger ships.
Either way, I haven't found any reference to equipment operating as high in frequency as 70MHz either.
There was, of course, a well established chain of VHF D/F stations on the South Coast, including Dover (Abbotscliffe), Beachy Head, Rew Down (Isle of Wight) and Start Point, coordinated from Fort Southwick at Portsmouth.
On a separate topic - are you going to be publishing any of your work on the Auxiliary Units?
cheers
Peter G8BBZ
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 1:27 pm   #26
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

There's an extensive thread here, discussing E-Boat VHF use. Most of the discussion is about the receivers LO or super-regen circuits radiating sufficient for the Allies to track the e-Boats.

http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6726

I know little of German equipment, so cannot add to the frequencies debate.

73

Roger/G3VKM
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 4:05 pm   #27
trh01uk
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G8BBZ View Post
Hi Richard,
There is a specific reference her:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/SchnellSignals.htm
to the use of the Lo1UK35 transceiver on E-Boats - a low power A2/A3 transceiver operating between 41.55 and 45.75MHz - used ship to ship for coordination at sea.
The only other VHF set used by the Kriegsmarine appears to be Lo10UK39 - a 10W A2/A3 transceiver operating between 37.5 and 45.7MHz. I have not found any specific reference to confirm the use of this set on E-Boats so it's use may have been on larger ships.
Either way, I haven't found any reference to equipment operating as high in frequency as 70MHz either.
There was, of course, a well established chain of VHF D/F stations on the South Coast, including Dover (Abbotscliffe), Beachy Head, Rew Down (Isle of Wight) and Start Point, coordinated from Fort Southwick at Portsmouth.
On a separate topic - are you going to be publishing any of your work on the Auxiliary Units?
cheers
Peter G8BBZ
Peter,

thanks for the info on those VHF sets - I wasn't familiar with them, but as you say they don't cover 70MHz either.

To answer your other question about the Auxiliary Units work, its not in my personal gift to decide to publish or not publish. It would have to be a group decision (the group that worked on all of it). Even if we decided to publish, someone (or more likely a small team) would be required to draw together all the useful research and studies done on propagation, site surveys and equipment investigations to make any sense of it for a new audience. Currently all the information is contained in long email threads, and random files. I suspect motivation to do the work is pretty low because we didn't reach any very strong conclusions - except that we didn't really believe the claims of Ken Ward. And of course the usual conclusion - more work is necessary!

Richard

As a P.S. I should add that some information was given to group members on the express condition that it was never made public. Any publication would have to be done on the basis of honouring such promises. Over the years the group was active we did have one or two people trying to join with the (later obvious) intention of obtaining all the work, and then using it to bolster publication work they already had in hand. The experience of that has put a number of group members off, I think, ever committing anything to any public medium.

Last edited by trh01uk; 21st Aug 2017 at 4:13 pm. Reason: Further explanation
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 4:38 pm   #28
G3VKM_Roger
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

Hello All,

I'd like to thank all the contributors to this thread, some quite interesting info has surfaced and more avenues for possible research. The original idea of my posting was to try and identify the equipment in the IWM photos but we haven't really progressed too far on that aspect beyond the receivers in use.

I raised the issue as I have been in touch with a person who was born in Southwold and is interested in the history of the town during wartime. He hopes to gather enough material for a display in the local museum and being able to show modern photos of some of the equipment used at the Y or D/F stations would be useful. My contact is not knowledgable about radio and radar so I offered to post on his behalf - although he is monitoring the discussion, I believe.

The Aux Units topic is of great interest to lots of us but I'd respectfully suggest we start a new thread on the subject.

73

Roger/G3VKM
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Old 21st Aug 2017, 9:33 pm   #29
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Default Re: WW2 RN "Y" Station at Southwold, Suffolk?

Good lord, I never knew about that. It does look Easton Baventy, but I'd like to know exactly where it was. I grew up in Southwold, and only live nine miles away now, although most of the old boys who would have known where this was are gone. There are still one or two, so I shall see if I can elicit enquiries.

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