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Old 16th Nov 2013, 10:02 pm   #21
Radio Wrangler
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Both mine (one is avery early AR88 - no suffix letter) have plain black mains transformers. THe HT chokes and AF output transformer are battleship grey.

The photo is one of the later CR88 variants as can be seen by the two small knobs just visible under the tuning knob. Notice that the block capacitor is in two separate parts in these later receivers. Both mine have the one-piece grey block.

David
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Old 17th Nov 2013, 9:53 am   #22
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Ah, you know I must learn to use those eye thingies that were free issue in my head - yes two block capacitor .

As per yours, all of the ones that I've had are grey painted cans though, having dug through some old photos I find that I actually have a mixture on the transformer, one grey, two black, all plain.

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Old 17th Nov 2013, 2:58 pm   #23
David Dunlop
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Well, the first snow fall of the season, that will likely stick around until Spring, now, has finally arrived here. On the bright side, that means an end to all yard work other than the usual snow shovelling and a lot more free time in the house for projects like cleaning up one's AR88LF!.

If anybody happens to have an AR88LF with an original paper label on the R-F Cover, can they post a photo of it? If mine is indeed missing it's own, I shall eventually need to clone a replacement for it.

More pictures of the project should be forthcoming over the next few weeks.

Cheers for now and stay warm,


David
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Old 17th Nov 2013, 3:18 pm   #24
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Decades after photo of a wall-full of AR88s in Vancouver, Bletchley Park are now collecting them and rebuilding them for their own wall.

Actually, I think it's a secret government plan to calibrate a gravitational sensor on a satellite.

The receivers in the racks at BP are a mixture of D and LF types. Some with 'aftermarket' S meters, some without. In original use, they all would lack meters because those were included in the diversity control panels (one can be seen to the left of the guide).

Also the receiving sites were all separate from BP. I was told there was a receiver station with one HRO fed from a simple wire antenna up in the attics.

David
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Old 17th Nov 2013, 8:11 pm   #25
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Bruce:

Interesting photo from BC. The RCAF also ran a listening post operation in Whitehorse, Yukon. I ran across a web site about it recently. When I track it down again I will post it.

David:

I was wondering why all my marbles had recently started rolling towards England.


David
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 5:41 pm   #26
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Here is a picture of the back of my AR88LF cabinet. More mysteries!

I had noticed the three hole "additions" when I got the receiver, but it was not until I took this photo, I realized there was the ghost of a data plate located here at one time. The shadow of the data plate measures about 2.5 inches wide by 1.5 inches high and the upper two holes were drilled out to a larger size for some reason and a slightly smaller hole added, upper right of these. Any ideas as to what the original data plate looked like?

From what I have read, most AR88LF receivers built in RCA's Montreal plant had a serial number stamped into the steel apron at the back of the chassis and this number was always preceded by "C- ". I cannot see any such number stamped anywhere on the visible part of the chassis at the moment, although it may be possible it is hidden under the Northwest Industries sticker to the right of the aerial terminal strip. It may be possible no serial number was ever added to the chassis of this set, if the RCAF data plate on the front of the receiver, with the GR-17 serial number on it met the contract requirements for this set. Or, I am still not looking in the right spot.

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Old 20th Nov 2013, 5:47 pm   #27
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Also thought I would post a photo of the power cord currently fitted to the receiver. Not the best clarity, but it is essentially a stubby, black, bakelite cylinder, 1.25 inches in diameter and 1.25 inches long. Flat back with the cord entering the side of the cylinder, close to the back. Made by AMPHENOL. Would this be original?


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Old 25th Nov 2013, 7:46 pm   #28
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Not much done with the receiver since my last post, but I have had a few interesting communications with some people regarding data plates relative to this equipment and it's accessories. It seems that RCA may have had data plates on the bottom of the speakers made for these receivers which identified the speaker model number and serial number. If that is the case, then I am now wondering if the data plate which was once mounted on the back of my AR88LF receiver cabinet had nothing to do with the actual chassis contained therein, but was also just an ID tag RCA applied identifying the cabinet model and perhaps also giving it a serial number.

Does anyone have an AR88 series cabinet with a data plate on the back, or the holes that once mounted a data plate?


David
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Old 25th Nov 2013, 8:33 pm   #29
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Hi
I can't get to it easily at the moment but my AR88LF has a plate on the rear of the cabinet which I think has the serial number of the receiver on it.
I'll have a closer look at it when I can.
Don m5aky
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Old 25th Nov 2013, 9:39 pm   #30
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Thanks, Don.

No rush. It took me 20 minutes to manoeuvre mine around to take photos of the back. Then I had to put a pot of tea on and relax an hour before turning it right way round again! Then I had a nap.


David
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Old 26th Nov 2013, 10:23 am   #31
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Hi David,
Here is a picture of the plate. Not easy to read Serial number C01502 and date 1949. This set has an engraved front panel with a smooth finish.
I can't see a serial number on the chassis though.
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Old 26th Nov 2013, 10:33 am   #32
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

My early AR88 has four tapped holes at the top centre of the front panel, just right for a label of that aspect ratio. It pre-dates the division into D and LF models. The serial number is stamped directly into the outside face of the rear drop of the chassis, visible with the case on, and isn't on a removable label.

My AR88D (bought as a spares donor) doesn't have the four holes. The serial is stamped in the same place on the chassis.

Back to gearbox failures, the AR88 has full-circle drive gears for the tuning scale and this type is considered to be up to the job. The later units had just a sort of quadrant driving the tuning scale, and is known to be breakable if someone spins the tuning into the end stops.

David
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Old 1st Dec 2013, 12:04 am   #33
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Don: Thanks for the photo input. The size of the plate looks to be a dead ringer for the one missing from mine. I have a chum out Vancouver way with another RCAF AR99LF (GR-17) who is going to send me some photos of what his set came with. His GR-17 serial number is apparently up in the 1,000's somewhere. It would sure be nice and simple if the Air Force simply used the original RCA serial number as the GR-17 serial number, but my gut tells me it is going to get a lot more complicated than that!

David: Interesting that other users had data plates mounted on the front of the AR88's and not just the RCAF. Since most of the LF sets went out to England and Canada, I am going to post a query on a site in the USA about data plate locations on the AR88's down there and see what might turn up to further muddy the waters. The RCA standard at the moment seems to be stamping it on the lower rear chassis and perhaps adding a data plate to the rear of the cabinet instead, if the set was so issued…

David
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Old 3rd Dec 2013, 4:55 pm   #34
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

The serial No info here is quite interesting. I've not been able to find one stamped on my set at the rear or anywhere else. I did know that some had a plate on the front but must sources suggested there should be something impressed onto the rear chassis and this was a bit puzzling

I haven't looked for a "ghost" image on the back of the cabinet but will investigate this when I'm back south in the same room as the set shortly.

Overall the ID No issue has been raised on a number of threads plus Diversity Reception [relates to mine] and apparently "odd" mods. A quick look brought up the interesting one started by Mans [11/11/12] "R1556A High Impedance Headphones" [AR88 by another designation].
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 5:02 am   #35
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Hello Dave.

Nice to hear from you. I am reasonably certain no AR88 series receiver ever left either RCA's Montreal, Canada or Camden, New Jersey production lines without having a serial number attached to it and I think RCA put the serial numbers onto the sets in two specific ways.

The vast majority of these receivers were rack mounts and these had the serial number stamped into the lower steel chassis.

A lesser amount of the AR88 production was ordered as table top receivers, each contained in it's own cabinet. For these receivers, a data plate was attached to the upper back of the cabinet on which the Model, serial number and year of manufacture were stamped. For these sets, no serial number was stamped onto the chassis. This initially struck me as a little odd, because from what I have read, the serial number stamped onto the rear chassis of the receiver can be read through the connections opening in the lower back of the cabinet. So if the chassis stamping could still be visible when the chassis was placed in a cabinet, why did RCA go to the trouble of adding a data plate to the cabinet and not just stamp the chassis? I think there is a missing piece to this puzzle, quite literally.

The opening at the bottom rear of the AR88 cabinet is surrounded by a set of seven cage nuts. The only logical reason I can think of for their existence, is to fasten a cover plate over this area. When this cover plate was in place, one would not be able to read any serial number on the chassis, so RCA decided not to stamp it on receivers leaving the factory as table top sets and placed a data plate on the back of the cabinet instead. These cover plates were probably considered a royal pain in the butt by the wireless operators, who probably tossed them in short order, and today, we are left wondering exactly what these cover plates would have looked like.

Adding a bit of a wrinkle to this is the very real probability RCA had a separate run of empty cabinets produced to fill the need from any user that, for whatever reason, decided to take a rack mounted receiver they already had in service and convert it to a table top set or replace a damaged cabinet. These cabinets would have been predrilled for a data plate, but shipped in these circumstances without one being fitted.

That pretty much covers the RCA serial number issues I can think of from the production end of things. But then the end users raise a whole set of other issues.

How many of the end users (like the RCAF for example) fastened their own data plates to the front panel of the receiver, and of these end users, how many had their own (again like the RCAF) model and serial numbering system? The RCAF and Canadian Army, both referred to the AR88LF as a GR-17 and the RCAF definitely had a serial numbering sequence for their GR-17's. But what I do not know at this point is if the RCAF's GR-17 serials numbers were unique numbers or just clones of the RCA serial numbers already given to the receivers.

Whoa! Now my head is spinning! I need to stop and have a pint or two!

Cheers for now,


David
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Old 7th Dec 2013, 12:23 am   #36
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Bruse.

Sorry it took a while, but I finally rediscovered the link to the site about RCAF Station Whitehorse.

http://jproc.ca/rrp/whitehorse.html


David
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Old 11th Dec 2013, 7:37 pm   #37
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Boy these AR88 cabinets just keep getting more and more interesting!

Does anyone ever recall their favourite electronics surplus shop back in the day selling NOS cabinets? I would find it mildly surprising that all cabinet production from RCA was completely used by the military, so some must have been surpluses out and disposed of either by various military organizations around the world, or by RCA themselves.

What I find really interesting about these cabinets today, is what seems to be missing from all of them. How many of you AR88 owners today, who have cabinet mounted receivers, have noticed the seven captive anchors around the perimeter of the rear opening in the cabinet and the two possible alignment guide holes (one at either end of the opening)? The small anchor fittings look similar to a Dzus fastener, which would suggest a cover plate mounted here was designed for quick removal and fitting by the operator.

Hense my curiosity about what an NOS cabinet kit for the AR88 would have looked like, regarding what the kit actually contained.

David
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Old 12th Dec 2013, 12:30 am   #38
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Well!

You people have put me in a difficult spot.
A couple of really nice members of this forum have, for a couple of years, been trying to get me to learn how to put photographs into my posts.
They know who they are!!

You see, I have in my hand right now a rear cover plate from an AR-88LF.
This radio is in my workshop waiting for restoration. It is complete with all of the internal covers as well as the full outer case including "The elusive rear cover".

Nothing remarkable about the cover. Yes David, it does have 7 of those quarter turn fasteners captive on it. Different to the ones so often seen on wartime radio stuff of US origin.
2 only 5/8 inch round holes 1 and 5/16 inches from the bottom of the plate and 15/16 ths of an inch from the ends.
two rectangular and one round topped slots cut into the bottom of the plate.
There is a co-axial RF connector mounted near to the centre of the plate for I guess the antenna lead. This connector is one of those wartime "Pye" connectors. The one with the small spring wire clip that folds over the female half after it is inserted and holds it all together. I am not sure if this connector is original or not but it is of the correct vintage. It has been there for a very long time and there are no scrape marks around it (ie. paint damage). There are 2 short bits of wire to it. The hot wire looks to be original. Stranded with rubber insulation and braided cotton sheath dull red colour. The earth wire is a bit of orange plastic insulated wire of quite some age. I have not looked under the radio to see if it has been re-wired. I was given a truck load of stuff and I had to return the hired truck quite quickly so everything was just put into my workshop quickly and I have had neither the space or time to go right through things yet. This thread about the elusive cover had to be addressed.

One interesting thing is that there is a strip of sheet steel 3/4 of an inch wide and same gauge as the main cover along the lower edge of the cover and I guess it is to add strength to the area where the 3 slots are in the bottom of the cover. This strip is on the internal side of the cover.

Where the radio is located makes it a bit difficult to see the serial number so I will have to do a fair bit of work to get to that stage but if anyone is interested I will persevere with the task. Or if someone just needs to punish me ..................... Hihi.

More info.

Just had a quick look on the net and could not find any commercial fastener that looks the same as the ones on the back cover. The ones on the cover are not of the "Dzus" style.

Cheers, Robert.
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Old 12th Dec 2013, 1:48 am   #39
David Dunlop
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

Robert, Robert, Robert…

You really know how to torment us don't you!

It is wonderful to know these cabinets actually did have back cover plates after all. Curious as to where they all disappeared to, however. Your's is the first confirmed one I have ever learned of, so well done in your acquisition of it. Take your time getting the information from your set and figuring out posting photos on the forum. It will be worth the wait for us! If you can measure up dimensions from the plate, that would be helpful as well. I am sure the fastener must have been a commercially available one in the 40's. Perhaps somebody will recognize them one they see them up close.

It will be interesting to see if you can find a serial number on the back chassis of your receiver, or on a data plate on the back of the cabinet. I still have not figured out exactly what policy was in place at RCA for marking the serial numbers on the sets. If one shows up on the chassis somewhere, can you also photo where it was found?

Any idea what military units in Australia were using the AR88LF's? Several 'Listening Posts' run by the RCAF have turned up here in Canada and the Canadian Army was apparently using the receivers as well, but I do not yet know exactly where, why and how.

Thanks again for the great news!

Best regards,


David
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Old 17th Dec 2013, 1:13 am   #40
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Default Re: RCAF AR88LF (GR-17) Project

With the great help of a gentleman in Wales, I am now the proud owner of an NOS matching speaker for my AR88LF. The speaker I had was only the case and speaker element, so with a careful inspection of the interior fitting of the new speaker, I hope to be able to put together the correct bits to make a second working speaker for a chum's AR88LF on the West coast. He has metal shop connections I do not have access to, so the details I have received regarding the missing rear cover will come in very handy for him, reproducing that part.

Regards for now,


David
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