Hacker Mayflower sound quality.

[radiogammon]

I have a Hacker Mayflower 2 RV20 which I got some time ago and have restored the cabinet and electrics on it. It is a lovely performing set with great sensitivity and stability. My only gripe concerns the sound quality and I always felt this was mediocre considering the specifications with the push pull output stage and large 10x6 speaker. Other members have also commented on this. I always felt it lacked bass and sounded slightly muffled. Over the holidays, I spent a bit of time trying to track down the reason for this, and it is quite simple - a poor speaker. I tried connecting a pair of small bookcase speakers in series (to better match the 15 ohm impedance) and plugged them into the rear extension speaker sockets. The improvement in the sound quality was remarkable and it now has more than enough bass response and sounds much livelier. The set's 6W output is more than enough to drive them. I have no reason to believe that the original fitted internal speaker is faulty. It may have been a poor match for the set to start with or it may have deteriorated with age, although I think this unlikely. Anyway, I will leave the new pair of speakers in place on either side of the set, but if anyone has a spare 10x6 speaker of another make, it may be worth a try to exchange it with the original and see if it improves things.

[ianj]

Ive fitted a big celestion speaker in my mayflower 2 and it is a revelation! recommended ! ianj

[Neil F]

Hmm... I've just restored one of these for my own use. It does sound fairly good, with adequate bass, but nothing truly spectacular. I'm not actually disappointed, but from the blurb given in the service manual (I may be paraphrasing wildly, but I seem to recall something to the effect that this is a no-compromise set with regard to sound quality), you'd expect something remarkable, and it isn't THAT good. I'll try changing the speaker and see if that helps!

Neil F.

[Neil F]

Well, I tried one or two experiments today. With the original speaker, the position of the radio makes a considerable difference: it sounds better when the back isn't too close to a wall. You also have to drive the speaker a bit - it sounds much better at medium/high volumes than when playing quietly. That's probably just the basic physiology of hearing (i.e. the loudness effect). However, the biggest improvement came when I tried the set with an external hi-fi speaker. It really does raise the performance into the 'excellent' class, with lots of unforced bass and clean-sounding treble. I'm starting to sound like an audiophool, aren't I?! So, I'll be looking out for a replacement speaker too. The problem is finding one that'll fit (10x6, 15 Ohm) and is sufficiently better than the original to be worth changing. Any suggestions, anyone?

In fairness to Hacker, they describe the internal speaker merely as a 'large, wide range' one, and make no claims about hi-fi. They also mention that provision is made for the external connection of a 'large, high fidelity speaker', which sort of makes you think they were aware that the internal speaker didn't do the set full justice.

Neil F.

[Paul_RK]

I'd expect the rather basic nature of the "enclosure" to be quite a limiting factor on sound quality: and 10"x6" full-range units of exceptional performance don't come readily to mind. Compact loudspeaker design for high fidelity was still quite a new idea in the Mayflower's day. All things considered, the resident sets here will be keeping their loudspeakers.

I don't have one to hand, but the "Gramophone" review of the RV14 mentions its suitability for driving an electrostatic 'speaker, presumably in those days the Quad: a challenge to which not all amplifiers responded well. Any contemporary impressions would be interesting...

Paul

[Stewart]

I think Paul RK has hit the nail on the head with regard to the cabinet being a major factor here:

The same Goodmans speaker was fitted to some of the Hacker record players of this period too, and although supplemented with tweeters, these had a very rich sound indeed. The output stage used in the record players is virtually identical to that of the Mayflower so I think the deeper, more rigid cabinet that they had must have helped no end. For many years I used one of their matching amplifier / speaker units as a bench amplifier and it gave superb sound and, like others who have posted, felt somewhat let down when I finally aquired a Mayflower and heard its reproduction. That said it does give very good 'natural' speech sound quality without any sign of boom or sibilance that can show in other 'quality' table sets.

Stewart

[Steve_Bell]

I use my Hacker "Amplifier and Loudspeaker Unit", Type AL42, for the same purpose as Stewart (bench amplifier) and it sounds great. Fitted with the same 10"x6" loudspeaker.

It has the same output stage as the Mayflower II, and is normally used in conjunction with mono Hacker record players to convert them to stereo.

The key difference compared to the Mayflower II is the size and depth of the enclosure, giving better bass response.

[Paul_RK]

Re. Stewart's comments, the larger and non-portable "Serenade" record player, available with or without FM radio, used tweeters, but the standard portables were just fitted with the Goodmans 10"x6" unit. Their cabinets were designed to be used with the lid down, which much increased the effective enclosure size and produced a very noticeable increase in bass response: probably not very smooth, but certainly effective. As shown by the current popularity of subwoofers, the lower bass register isn't perceived directionally, so the considerable difference in acoustic properties between a Cavalier or Gondolier with its lid down and the associated second amplifier / 'speaker unit wouldn't generally have troubled users.

Paul

[GJR 11L]

Good Morning Folks,
I have an RV14 and find that the positioning of the set is crucial if you don't want all that bass to disappear into the soft furnishings! Mine is currently sitting on the kitchen table doing breakfast duty, but when I had it on a shelf in the corner of the living room the sound of the beast was much more pleasant. I have 2 of those AL42 amplifier/speaker units and use these as 'active' speakers for the dull, modern separates system. My Modern amplifier now acts purely as a pre-amp for the turntable & means of switching between input devices. Listening mainly to blues, some jazz, folk and a smattering of reggae is a satisfying experience with the Hackers but when I switch from vinyl to cd, the modern amp & speakers get the job.

Conclusion: Every household needs at least 2 decent valve amps, but arguably Blaupunkt, Grundig, Telefunken, Braun et al managed to mount their quality sets in acoustically superior cabinets. Which is why that spare RV14 chassis I just bought is going to live on in a home-made cabinet, probably made from something transparent! Now where's that hacksaw?........

[radiogammon]

I don't think the cabinet can take all the blame. As ianj says above, he fitted a large Celestion speaker into his and it made a huge improvement over the original one. Thinking back to the 60's, there were plenty of good 8in speakers about which would have given reasonable bass even on a small baffle. The Mayflower cabinet is a reasonable size so should have sounded better than it does. I still think the original speaker choice by Hacker was a poor one.

[quantum]

Originally Posted by radiogammon

I still think the original speaker choice by Hacker was a poor one.

Probably a financial decision I suppose. If Hacker were using the Goodmans units in other equipment then they could possibly buy the speakers in bulk at a discounted price. If the Celestion unit mentioned is the same one as a 15 ohm unit I have here, then this has a larger magnet and has greater depth, so if used it could have increased the price of the set...

[Steve_Bell]

You could put a speaker(s) of your choice on a sub-baffle to improve the sound quality.

Here's a trick I did with a Decca66. The original speaker was not working so I made a sub-baffle with the same mounting holes as this original speaker and fitted a modern replacement that had different fixings; see the picture. Doing this meant that if I ever find a direct replacement original, I just remove the modern one - I haven't drilled or altered the original cabinet or fixings.

Not perhaps the best solution but I have another Decca66 with original speaker and the modern version actually sounds better. The modern version is actually a 4ohm car speaker.

You would have to find a 15ohm unit for the Hacker, or use two smaller 8ohm units.

[quantum]

I've used sub-baffles before now when necessary, although I try to keep a pseaker of the same size if possible. If there is sufficient space, and 8" round speaker has the same fixing holes as a 10" x 6" unit, and is probably more easily available, and no new holes would need to be drilled...

[avro]

Regarding replacement speakers: Gerry Wells has the correct goodmans elliptical speakers in stock, also Celestions the same size. I am going to opt for the Celestion.

[radiogammon]

Do you know if Gerry will supply by post and what is the best way of contacting him?

[radiogammon]

I have contacted Gerry Wells regarding getting hold of a Celestion 10x6 speaker and he tells me he has some in stock but cannot supply mail order. Would anyone attending the Vintage Wireless Museum in the near future be prepared to pick one up for me and post it over to Belfast? I would certainly appreciate it and pay costs.

[Lowemission]

Hi Radiogammon......if all else fails i could collect the speaker from Gerry at the next Harpenden and then post it to you, that's if it's OK with Gerry.

Julian

[Roy]

I will be visiting Gerry next week. If you would like me to collect a speaker and post it to you, please send me a PM with your contact details, etc.



Roy

[radiogammon]

Thanks to Julian and Roy. Have sent both PM's.

[Neil F]

Hey, John (Radiogammon) - did you ever get that speaker and if you did, did it do any good?