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Old 23rd Jun 2014, 11:29 pm   #1
Skywave
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Question Activity on 80 metres?

Having read the post about lack of activity on 160 m., to me, the activity on 80 m. seems a lot less (as regards inter-G working) than it used to be - say 10 years ago. Very often, when I tune around 80 m., I hear nothing at all. OTOH, 40 m. seems to be more active for inter-G contacts than it used to be.

Anyone here found similar experiences? And if so, any theories?

Al. (G8DLH)
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 12:16 am   #2
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

I think the lower you go the worse the modern man-made interference from nearby powerline networks, switched mode power supplies and constantly-on digital devices gets.

If I step through the bands on my HF transceiver from 160m to 10m the background noise levels gradually decrease from an initial extremely high level until they are fairly tolerable on 10m, albeit with a lot of strong spot-frequency sproggies even on that band.

We have effectively been driven higher up the bands by the appalling levels of QRN in urban areas, which, statistically, is where most hams will be.
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 7:04 am   #3
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

QRN may well be putting some off, but that is not the reason (and it is not as bad as some try and make out). There is a general change in operating habits and people don't come on and chat like they used to do. Just listen to the bands during a major contest, and to 80m during the Club Challenge evening events when the band is chock-a-block, it is just that there is nobody there at any other time. Also daytime conditions on 80m have been pretty poor in recent years for various reasons (eg when 40m is good for inter-G 80m will be poor as the critical frequency is too high for 80). Inter-G will always go where the critical frequency (F0) is optimum - and you will NOT have these types of QSOs on 20m or above, skip distance precludes it.

73 Dave G3YMC
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 9:28 am   #4
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

3615KHz is the "spot" frequency for the VMARS net - there are often non-VMARS people around 3615-3625 but as night falls the continental QRM tends to rise and become rather a struggle for 6KHz-bandwidth AM to overcome.

The QRN is an issue too: the move away from large scale use of 625-line CRT TVs has removed the 15.625KHz comb of timebase-buzz but replaced it with other TV-related burbles. Solar-photovoltaic panels are also a new cause of LF-band interference on 80M.
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 10:30 am   #5
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

I agree with the above comments i have noticed that 80 is a lot less busy now. Unfortunatley the 3757 Kc group seem s to have disapeared although the russian pip marker is still there if you can here that your aerials doing a good job. The noise level is a constant s7 for me its just continuouse hash right across the band its even spread to 7 Mc/s now unfortunatley
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 10:55 am   #6
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

What is the Russian Pip Marker? Not heard of that before although I am not that active at present despite having a decent set up at this end.

Mainly due to having to replace the shack (bedroom) floor in the near future having found woodworm.
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 11:45 am   #7
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

I was prompted by the post to have a listen, its now 11.45am and I can't hear a soul on there, I also have an S5-7 noise level which considering I am right out in the country, nearest neighbour about 1/4 mile away is ridiculous. There is a fair amount of activity on 40m but I don't think I would be able to hear it on 80m if there was any.

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Old 24th Jun 2014, 2:08 pm   #8
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

Listen on the FISTS freqs...3.558. Always someone on.

D
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 7:16 pm   #9
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

Hamish the pip marker is a Russian station that transmits a pip on 3757 kc after dark it is believed to come from Rostov na donu and power is around 5 kilowatts
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 7:25 pm   #10
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

Isn't QRN Natural noise- armospherics etc? The man made crap is QRM.....
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 7:26 pm   #11
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

Actually, I'm sure that's right - my mistake (originally).
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 7:43 pm   #12
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herald1360 View Post
Isn't QRN Natural noise- armospherics etc? The man made crap is QRM.....
It's often hard to tell the difference between atmospheric-frying-noises and the fizzle of a nearby 33Kv overhead power-line with leaky insulators.
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 8:35 pm   #13
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

Thank You for info on Russian Pips.
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 8:55 pm   #14
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

I don’t think that lack of activity has much to do with band conditions, QRM etc – there’s no QRM on 2M and 70cms, but even in major conurbations there’s little or no activity on those bands either, simplex or via repeaters. Fact is that the number of active amateurs has steeply declined - not just in the UK but worldwide. I’m still set up for all bands from 160M to 10M at the flick of a switch, but have had no inclination to do so and haven't been on for years and I don't think I'm by any means alone in that. Nothing to do with QRM – for me, it's just too sedentary and I’ve too many more productive things in life to do, but I'm not holding myself out to be typical. (QRM is no big deal on CW either).

Every hobby and pastime has a life cycle, and in my view amateur radio is inexorably coming to the end of that cycle. I doubt it will fizzle out, and it will still be around when we're all gone, but with such developments as broadband internet, social networking, mobile phones, tablets etc, and so many other ways to spend what bit of leisure time we have, it's a shadow of its former self. It had its golden years after WW2, when many who'd been radio ops and mechs came back into ‘civvie street’ with no distractions such as CDs, DVDs, multi-channel colour cable/sat TV, internet and what not, keen to use their new-found skills in the hobby and as radio and TV engineers. Ex WD surplus components and equipment was widely available and home-brewing was the norm for most. True such equipment still has a minority following, as we see on this the VMARS forum, and G-QRP Club, but that post-war generation that was the bedrock of the hobby has largely died off.

I'm not even sure that having so many bands and more than forty modes nowadays is helpful,as it dissipates what little activity there is, spreading it very thinly. I don't use Echolink but I'm set up for it, so I've just checked activity levels and as I write, there are 140 UK amateurs on there, 1,493 across Europe, 693 in Asia, 2,600 in North America, 354 in South America, 148 in Oceania, and 25 in Africa. While they're on there - they're not on the bands. There are many distractions which leave little time for hobbies and people of all ages use mobile phones, tablets, send texts, and spend time on social networking sites. Our younger son and his wife are in Mauritius at present. We had a chat with them on Facetime earlier, both using i-pads. No-one these days thinks that such things are remarkable – why would they want to be into amateur radio, which by comparison is formal, staid and stilted.

Most traditional hobbies are in decline and skewed towards the older age group – (model engineering, woodturning, aeromodelling, model boats etc) - I’m not running the hobby down - it still has the capacity to be a wonderful hobby, and doubtless many still enjoy it, but the number of active amateurs bears no relationship to the number of licences issued.

in 2005 Ofcom commissioned a MORI survey of a statistically robust sample of amateurs across the UK and published a 64-page report on their findings. The demographics revealed by the survey came as no surprise, but didn’t bode well for the hobby. Amateur radio was (still is) predominantly an old mans’ hobby. 94% of licensees were male, more than three quarters (78%) of whom were aged 45 or older, with 29% aged 65 & over, and that was 9 years ago. Doubtless a lot of those will have passed on by now, or become inactive on air, as I have. Almost a quarter (24%) of licensees in 2005 had held their licence for between 11 and 20 years and almost half (46%) had held an amateur radio licence for more than 20 years. As to the frequency of on-air activity, even back in 2005, many had already become fairly inactive - 60% said they went on air once a week or more, 12% once a month, 11% once a year or more, the remainder less than once a year or not at all.

Much was made of the Foundation Licence and RSGB et al made great efforts to try to encourage youngsters into the hobby with word bites bandied around such as ‘a shot in the arm for the hobby’, ‘new blood’ 'catch them young’ and it’s true that many youngsters have indeed taken the Foundation licence - some as young as seven. Credit due to them and those who trained, encouraged and assessed them. But it’s facile to assume that they’ll rejuvenate the hobby, lower the age profile of active amateurs and counter-balance the loss from the hobby of older amateurs - it’s just not going to happen. The FL has been in place for more than a decade but few young 'FLers' have been heard on air, which should come as no surprise - why would pre-pubescent kids want to chat on air with guys who are older than their own granddads, (and frankly come to that, how many parents would want them to?). Few kids would even want to be on air with their own peer group when they can be on Facebook, texting or whatever. You can't buck the market – life has moved on. RSGB and many others continue to believe that they can shape and control the destiny of amateur radio, and ‘talk the hobby up’ but most of the factors which influence this are external to the hobby, and quite outside their control and anyone else's.

Nothing will change.

Sorry this is so wordy and to some may sound negative (and to cap it all, from someone who never goes on air anyway), but I've tried to be objective in forming my thoughts about why activity has declined to negligible levels.

Others may disagree, which is fine by me - it is just my take on things.

(I've still got the well-written, well-illustrated, 64-page 2005 MORI Survey Report on file, commissioned by Ofcom. It's 1.4MB - if anyone would like it forwarding via e-mail, please drop me a PM with your e-mail address).
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 10:07 pm   #15
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

David,

A couple of points; the RSGB recently pointed out that by catching youngsters we do NOT bring them into the hobby, for it is an "old mans game", but we do make them aware of the hobby so that when they become "old men" they might return. Certainly in our club we do see evidence of that.

Also, activity levels are not "negligible". They might not be at 1980s levels on some bands, but others are very busy when the sky behaves!

2m has been pretty much trashed by the removal of the CW barrier to HF, simple as that I'm sure.

I'm off to 80m, see you there? (Bottom end, proper radio.)

David
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 10:38 pm   #16
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

David, G4EBT, I wholly agree with your conclusions. Amateur radio was a great hobby, but will never regain the status it once had in the 1950s and 1960s. That said, I still use 2m and 70cms daily whilst driving or walking, i.e. when I can't be doing anything more productive!

73 de Phil
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 10:56 pm   #17
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

David, G4EBT, I too pretty much agree with many of your observations. My origins are 2m AM of the late 60's, but these days I spend a good deal of time with a soldering iron in my hand, but how often do I go on the air; once every few years.

B
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Old 24th Jun 2014, 11:59 pm   #18
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

I must agree, I wasn't licensed until the '80s although I had been in the trade all my life, it was CB that brought me into the hobby as it was with thousands of others, people found radio communications interesting. Now there are myriads of ways of communicating and so many have lost interest in basic radio, thousands of the G4 licences are no longer active as they have moved on to the computers and the internet.

Until a few years ago I was on a regular net with about a dozen others, sadly most of them have now died, the last one I regularly communicated with passed away about three years ago and that was the end of the net - my turn next.

Peter
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Old 25th Jun 2014, 12:24 am   #19
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Question Re: Activity on 80 m.?

In the hey-day of two metres with simple A.M rigs, crystal-controlled and tuning 'low-to-high', (or vice-versa) etc., I had a lot of fun. But when channelization and repeaters came along, I rapidly lost interest: the 'D-I-Y approach' seemed to have gone. To me, 'simple A.M rigs' captured the very spirit of Amateur Radio: 'kitchen table' technology, if you like. But I'd like to try to end this post on a positive note. Should those days of 'A.M. on 2' return - even if with a restricted sub-band allocation, I'm sure I would not be alone in rejoining the ensuing fun. But is that hope truly forlorn? And what harm to Amateur Radio would such a development do, anyway? And would it get the blessing of the RSGB?

Al.
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Old 25th Jun 2014, 1:26 am   #20
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Default Re: Activity on 80 m.?

Most of the 80m action takes place in the evenings - at and after dusk for obvious propagation reasons. We're in the middle of June - it's not always this quiet...

But agreed, activity is lower on all the bands. However, didn't the RSGB recently say licence numbers had increased? Even if they have, that doesn't necessarily mean more activity on the lower bands.

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