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Old 15th Sep 2008, 9:33 am   #21
Kat Manton
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

Hi,

Maybe I'm being cynical, but given the types chosen and the name and location of the company, I can hazard a guess at their target markets. I don't think it's us.

Said markets value one used, tested ECC83 at around £50 to £70 - provided it has the "right" codes on it, was made in the "right" factory, the anode pressing is the "right" shape/size, the getter ring is the "right" shape, etc. (Electrical characteristics matter not, it seems.)

So I have a feeling that these new production valves will be targetted firmly at those markets and priced accordingly.

But, maybe I'm being cynical...

Cheers, Kat
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 9:56 am   #22
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

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Originally Posted by Kat Manton View Post
Hi,

...So I have a feeling that these new production valves will be targetted firmly at those markets and priced accordingly.

But, maybe I'm being cynical...

Cheers, Kat
Well, we still use ECC81s as phase-splitters in our Leak amplifiers at work, and I've asked our 'valve king' to look into the new company, but there's no way we'll be paying silly prices for them!

I guess we have enough spares to out-last the senders (I hope this is untrue), but we'll enquire nontheless.
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 10:56 am   #23
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

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Hi,

Maybe I'm being cynical, but given the types chosen and the name and location of the company, I can hazard a guess at their target markets. I don't think it's us.

But, maybe I'm being cynical...

Cheers, Kat

...I thought that as well Kat!


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Old 15th Sep 2008, 3:30 pm   #24
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

I've not doubted it... then, any endeavour to produce the valves most needed by the likes of us - kicking off say with the UL41, PENDD61 and a few assorted 1930s magic eyes, oh, and that PX650 for my 1929 radiogram - without a patient millionaire for benefactor woud seem a fast and sure way to bankruptcy. Hence my being disposed to raise a cheer for the renewed manufacture of valves on these shores whatever their intended market.

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Old 15th Sep 2008, 3:46 pm   #25
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

Why don't a few of us contact this company?
Maybe if they have a few tens of enquiries it might persuade them to consider a market for other types of valves which they were hitherto not even aware of.
I wonder if they have heard of the BVWS?
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 4:05 pm   #26
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

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I have a feeling that these new production valves will be targetted firmly at those markets and priced accordingly.

But, maybe I'm being cynical...
I don't think you're being cynical Kat, and if they price themselves at the top of the market I don't think that these folks will be either. I'm afraid it'll just be business. They will have to eat, and they will want to do it at first-world rates when a lot of their competition will be being paid second or third-world money.

I can't do the sums for the ECC8x's but I do have a few Mullard EF86's in their original boxes. The codes on the valves date them to 1961. The price on the boxes is "13/6 P.T.extra". If I scale this up with RPI (X16.4 since 1961) or average earnings (X15.3, ignoring a few shifts in the goalposts) I reckon a Mullard EF86 would cost between £10 and £11 at today's rates before tax. Frankly I gave up trying to work out the purchase tax rate but it may have been a lot more than the current VAT rate.

For comparison a search for EF86 on the Hotrox site http://www.hotroxuk.com/store/erol.html#1X0 (not silly audiophile prices) shows that modern Russian ones can be had for £9-£10 and a European one costs £15 and all these prices include tax. So new valves are no more expensive than they used to be, which I think is remarkable given the decline in production volume. This will be the market that the Blackburn team will need to compete in and I'd be surprised if they could charge many times more than, say, JJ and still hope to sell enough to make a living.

So I'm with Andy and Neil and Peter N. I'm really pleased to see this happening and I wish them all the very best. I won't mind stumping up extra for a good product made in the UK and if there's any chance of a trip, SKEXIS1, then please count me in !

Cheers,

GJ
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 8:06 pm   #27
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

Brilliant film I have always wondered how they were made.
What an amazing collection of automated machinery in that factory!
Did it end up in russia?....
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Old 15th Sep 2008, 11:56 pm   #28
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

I have contacted the company to enquire if there are any plans to expand their range and if they would be interested in making other valves if there is enough demand.
In particular I mentioned EM34,UL41 and PX4.

I have received a favourable response, which I will post here once I obtain permission.
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Old 16th Sep 2008, 12:51 pm   #29
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

I think this is great and personally I don't mind if they do charge daft prices for these if they can get them! Not that I'll be paying them, I think good old ECL82's from Zaerix sound fine so long as they're matched!

Downloaded the datasheet for the E813cc and the specs look good but the internal structure is odd to say the least. I'm guessing they're using CRT parts by the looks of things, any experts care to have a look and comment?

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Old 16th Sep 2008, 7:22 pm   #30
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

Quote:
I'm guessing they're using CRT parts by the looks of things, any experts care to have a look and comment?
Funny you should say that......................


I contacted the company yesterday, and asked if they had any plans to expand their range or would entertain the possibilty of making some now had to get valves for the entheusiast market.......


Here is what I wrote:

Hi

I came across your website yesterday, with great interest and was delighted to find you have started producing valves on the old Mullard site. I wish you the best of luck with your endeavour, and wondered if you have any plans to increase your range in the future?

In addition to the obvious audio valves, I wondered if you would consider making some now getting-harder-to-obtain-every-day(and more expensive…………so there is a market) radio valves or even “magic eye” valves(some EM34’s now go for more than £25. Imagine how many you could sell at £10!). There are a substantial number of people involved in the restoration of vintage electronic equipment in this country(even more world wide) and only finite stocks of valves. Some 1930’s valves are now particularly scarce, and many enthusiasts would love to be able to obtain replacements for their beloved wireless sets.



Obviously I have no idea of tooling costs or how many of one particular valve you would have to sell to break even, or how much they would need to be sold for, but hopefully this is feasible.

Maybe a limited run of a few hundred EM34’s or PX4’s and see how they go! UL41 would also be very useful. There are many more such valves, which would be desirable to us “anoraks” and the British Vintage Wireless Society could probably supply more information.

I am not a member and am not acting for the aforesaid organisation. I am just one of many radio and vintage technology enthusiasts who would love to be able to buy certain valves again.



Incidentally the people behind the restoration of the WW2 computer “Colossus” were appealing for EF37’s just the other day.

Thanks for taking the trouble to read this E-mail and I look forward to a reply.



...and the reply(quoted with kind permission)

Hi Tim,



Your enthusiasm for the valve is obvious and equally matched by our determination to bring some respectability back to the production of valves. We are astounded by the poor quality that the valve users of the world have to suffer. It is our intention to rectify this situation.



We are constantly reviewing which valves we should make in the future and are adding valves as we move forward. One of the biggest constraints is not making valves in the traditional way. Looking at our site you will notice the valve construction is radically different. The heart of the valve is a cathode from the television display industry, something we have been making for the past thirty years. If we can utilise this cathode or a simple derivative the valve is possible. Volumes then dictate if it is viable.



Your suggestions for future valves are most informative and helpful. For up to date product information keep checking the web site…



Thanks for your support.



With kind regards,

Andy Blades

Sales and Marketing Manager



Phone: +44 (0) 1254 507317

GSM mobile: +44 (0) 7785 110930

Skype address: andy.blades1

See our technologies at: www.blackburnmicrotech.com www.techtubevalves.com & www.lpdlabservices.co.uk

Blackburn MicroTech Solutions Ltd., Philips Road, Blackburn, Lancashire, England. BB1 5RZ +44 1254 507400


So they didn't actually say no!

Positive and optimistic. If a few more write in they may go after the "anorak pound"!..
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Old 17th Sep 2008, 3:38 pm   #31
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Post Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

Apart from the economics, is there any reason why a valve which has leaked or just blown a heater can't be 'reused' by salvaging the internal parts and refitting in a new envelope after a bit of refurbishment, at the momemt it seems a valve is quickly discarded if it has stopped working, this could be a mistake as valves become rarer. Obviously the right type of equipment would be needed, much the same as making a new valve.

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Old 17th Sep 2008, 10:47 pm   #32
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

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Apart from the economics, is there any reason why a valve which has leaked or just blown a heater can't be 'reused' by salvaging the internal parts and refitting in a new envelope after a bit of refurbishment, at the momemt it seems a valve is quickly discarded if it has stopped working, this could be a mistake as valves become rarer. Obviously the right type of equipment would be needed, much the same as making a new valve.

Geof
'Big' valves are refurbished, typically the BY1144L manufactured by English Electric. We use a company called 'Econco' (better known around the site as e-conk-out). The link shows how valves are refurbished.

I would suggest it would be beyond economic feasibility to attempt to refurbish smaller valves than this. You could always invent a smaller version of the demountable valve!
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Old 17th Sep 2008, 11:29 pm   #33
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

My little hoard of magazines from circa 1927 is in hiding somewhere, but I distinctly remember seeing and being surprised by advertisements for valve repair/refurbishment services in them. Of course the valve types in general use were relatively few and basic, and expectations of performance probably none too exacting...

Paul
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 12:16 pm   #34
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Post Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

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'Big' valves are refurbished, typically the BY1144L manufactured by English Electric.
I would suggest it would be beyond economic feasibility to attempt to refurbish smaller valves than this. You could always invent a smaller version of the demountable valve!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_RK View Post
My little hoard of magazines from circa 1927 is in hiding somewhere, but I distinctly remember seeing and being surprised by advertisements for valve repair/refurbishment services in them. Of course the valve types in general use were relatively few and basic, and expectations of performance probably none too exacting...

Paul
Thanks Russell & Paul, I did work at EEV a few years ago, very interesting link, the Econkout was a bit before my time but I made similar sized racks for Ledicon picture tube testing, use to wire up ten deep of twelve gang one and two way wafers to monitor 50 tubes in a rack individually, including a video output, and each one worked first time on more than twenty racks I made. I remember walking past the lathes with gas burners heating the glass envelopes of much larger tubes, use to stop and chat to the guys operating them. I think it would still be wise to keep failed smaller valves, especially the rarer types, in case they could one day be worth refurbishing.

Thanks
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Old 18th Sep 2008, 12:31 pm   #35
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

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...but I distinctly remember seeing and being surprised by advertisements for valve repair/refurbishment services...
I haven't looked for any references but I'm pretty sure that in the early days of electric lighting there were services to refurbish light bulbs. It's a natural progression from there to valves to CRTs. Eventually the very low cost of mass production made it uneconomic. First for bulbs, then for valves and CRTs. Now it's a small scale service for specialist applications.

Big professional valves are a different matter. Expensive items made in small numbers. Demountable valves were serviced in situ. Sealed valves have commonly been refurbished.
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Old 19th Sep 2008, 4:35 am   #36
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Default Re: New British Valve Manufacturer.

I think it is wise to hang on to the rarer valves, even if they have failed, as this will be useful resource when the new valve manufacturers want a decent range (of each type) of original valves to refurbish, and then accurately duplicate them, even if the original designs were lost.


I was going to start a thread on the future prospects for (preferably UK) valve production, but, in part at least, the question has been answered.


Best of luck to them and it's great to see a revival of the best of our early technology. I'm really pleased.


This could even be a prospect for tube regunning in the future




BG

Last edited by Darren-UK; 19th Sep 2008 at 12:42 pm. Reason: OT sentence removed.
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